Some Questions about cashout after a finished Bonus

Anything related to casino whoring, monthly reloads, etc.
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    Last post ago over 6 years by bradwill
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    Tarki

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        Tarki

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        Hey Folks.
        First of all, this seems to be a really nice site with a kewl community.
        Nice to be here =D

        Second, i have some questions, on wich i can't find a answer.

        Assumed, that i deposited in a casino 200$ for a 400% First Deposit Bonus. I got 800$ through the bonus and 200$ from my deposit. Makes a total of 1000 Bugs. Let's say there is a wagerrate @50 for videopoker. So i have to wager 50000$ in order to be able to cashout.

        And here is the point that i'm not fully understanding. I can't cashout the bonus.
        i can only cash my winnings out and my deposited money. Ok, clear. But...

        if i completed the wagerrequirements is the bonusmoney gone ? If not, and lets say i have 700$ left (bonusmoney inclusive) whats my strategy?

        I don't really get it ^^. How exactly is the money i won handled ?
        Its not printed in any ToC.

        thank you very much =)
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        TAAADAAA

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        because the bonus is sticky = non-cashable, you wont be able to make a withdrawal if your balance is less than the starting balance which is $1000. 
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        Tarki

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        thank you for the quick answer.
        But with this limitation the bonus has no positiv expectation value ?

        I mean, with videopoker is the best possible return (ROI) round about 0.995.
        So, over the long run, i'm realy many times under the starting balance.

        So... i can't see a strategy with a positive EV. or in other words, can somebody explain me how it is possible whore this bonus with profit?

        math. explenations are also welcome =)

        Thx!!!
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        JacobBlack

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        You may want to check the FULL terms and conditions of the bonus. Such as, games included, games excluded, and as well as how much of your wager (per which game your playing) goes torward the playthrough. May be a little hard to give you an explanation not knowing any of these. And with the video poker question, I would stay away from that if it were me.

                                                             Jacob

                                         
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        TAAADAAA

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        I'm no good with video poker, so I can't give you any advice.  In your case, I would look for a cashable bonus.  200% cashable bonus is way better than 400% non cashable bonus.  If you deposit $100 with 200% cashable bonus, you then have a starting balance of $300.  After you complete the wagering requirement and let say your balance is at $200, you are eligible to withdraw and you make $100 profit.

        Tarki wrote:

        thank you for the quick answer.
        But with this limitation the bonus has no positiv expectation value ?

        I mean, with videopoker is the best possible return (ROI) round about 0.995.
        So, over the long run, i'm realy many times under the starting balance.

        So... i can't see a strategy with a positive EV. or in other words, can somebody explain me how it is possible whore this bonus with profit?

        math. explenations are also welcome =)

        Thx!!!

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        bradwill

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        JacobBlack wrote:

        You may want to check the FULL terms and conditions of the bonus. Such as, games included, games excluded, and as well as how much of your wager (per which game your playing) goes torward the playthrough. May be a little hard to give you an explanation not knowing any of these. And with the video poker question, I would stay away from that if it were me.

                                                              Jacob

         


        Jacob and TAADAA, your advice is all good but it sounds like Tarki has already considered these things since she/he is doing EV calculations on this particular bonus offer and mentioned factoring the VP wager requirements at 50%. (Correct me if I'm wrong Tarki). It sounds to me like you guys are just coming at this with different expectations and assumptions regarding these bonuses than Tarki, and/or just more experience w/the actual realties of the bonus whoring endeavor as it exists today.

        Tarki,

        Your calculations and conclusions are probably exactly right - you cannot expect to make money with this particular bonus over the long run. And of course, you can only do it once so your expection is also negative for the short run. You will lose money here; it's almost guaranteed. This will be the case with most of the bonuses you find here (but not all - not yet), and, as you will notice as you become more familiar with the site (if you're not already yet) nobody here is really into EV calcutions with these bonuses. They are almost all exclusive to slots or bingo/scratch cards, and, as you may have noticed, the wagering requirements and terms are such that the chance of cashing out is remote at best. So the prognosis is negative most of the time. I was gonna say more but I gotta go for now ...

        Sounds like you're not really looking to gamble with these things, but you should know (if you don't already) that if you pursue these bonuses you will necessarilly be doing quite a bit of it - in more ways than you can calculate mathmatically with an EV equation.

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        helwin

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        Bradwill -What a good answer    Tarki- I think you meant bucks, not bugs        I really like what you've done with cool- I like kewl better  thanks         
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        Tarki

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        hi =)
        thx for the answers, i really appreciate your help.
        @ helwin, yes i mean bucks ($) =D - english is a foreign english for me.

        @bradwill, thx for this answer. i give the hole thing  some thoughts and did some calculations.

        The example from my first post could have a positive expected value. (or other said, its profitable)

        The reason for that is the leverage the bonus gives to a player. I could only loose 200$, but can bet with 1000$ total. This smaller my potential loss, but maximize my winning.

        The one thing i trying to figure out is whats the best betting strategy.
        Grind it out small with minimumbets and when the wager-requirements are met, bet big - until a desired bankrolltarget is hit.

        Or is the other way better? Bet big, and then grind it out. 

        A big question that i have, and that's not total clear to me:

        if i'm under the starting balance, this means, if i have only bonusmoney left - and met then the wager requirements. Is the bonusmoney gone after this, or stay @ my account until i cashout or lost it all?

        Thank you very much =)

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        JacobBlack

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        I think that may depend on the casino your at. Some remove the bonus money apon meeting the wager requirements, and some dont. I think your best bet would be to contact Live Support, or email if thats not an option.

                                                  Jacob
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        bradwill

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        Tarki wrote:

        hi =)

        The one thing i trying to figure out is whats the best betting strategy.
        Grind it out small with minimumbets and when the wager-requirements are met, bet big - until a desired bankrolltarget is hit.

        Or is the other way better? Bet big, and then grind it out. 
        [/quote]

        This will probably depend on the type and amount of the bonus you're playing, the games you're playing on it and to some extent your personal preferences as to which you value most, your money or your time. If you're playing on a bonus that doesn't require a large investment on your part - such as a no-deposit or one with a very high match percentage - I would think a moderate to aggressive approach would be more sensible early on than a minimal betting approach. I'm not saying go crazy with it and severely overbet your bankroll, but you might want to bet more than the minimum for a while to try and push your balance up as high as possible early on and give you a better shot a making playthrough.

        If you take the other approach, especially with a bonus that has some outrageous wagering requirements, like 75 to 100X bonus + deposit for example, you will find that more often than not you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to playout the requirements only to find that it finally fizzles out just before you make wager requirements, or it makes it but the balance winds up just short of cashout. This happens all the time as I'm sure a lot of the players here can attest. So you've essentially wasted enormous amounts of time for  nothing ... oh, except for the entertainment value - which, like me, is what it really sounds like you're after. You may save some time and frustration by betting slightly more at first and either speeding up the inevitable or catching a lucky streak and running your balance up to a point that gives you more of a chance at meeting the requirements. If you do happen to get a good run and bring your balance up quite a bit, then pull back some and try and grind it out until the wager requirements are met and you still retain some cashable balance.

        Now, that mostly pertains to slots which is where most of your bonus time will be spent, unfortunately. But with Video Poker or Blackjack you might need a different approach. With VP you will surely want to bet the max coins at whatever denomination is suitable for your bankroll to try and take advantage of the bonus payout if you should happen to hit the Royal - or whatever the jackpot hand is on the particular VP variant you're playing. I've yet to do any BJ whoring but from what I understand the best approach - the one with the least amount of volatility and the highest completion rate - is a low to moderate flat betting style, never varying your betting amounts no matter what the balance happens to be doing at the time. My Blackjack play is mostly in land casinos where this style of betting is a slow suicide for your bankroll(WTF the software censors the word suicide?!). But online, with deposit bonuses, it's the right thing to do from what I understand. Maybe Zuga can chime in here and correct if I'm mistaken, as I believe he does, or used to do, a lot of BJ whoring.

        [quote author=Tarki link=topic=11139.msg94549#msg94549 date=1272227491]
        if i'm under the starting balance, this means, if i have only bonusmoney left - and met then the wager requirements. Is the bonusmoney gone after this, or stay @ my account until i cashout or lost it all?



        I think, as Jacob said, it probably depends on the casino you're playing at. From what I understand though, the most likely scenario would be that the balance is only reduced when the wager requirements have been met and the balance at that time is above the maximum cashable amount (including whatever reductions the casino intends to apply). If it's below that it will probably still remain active in your account until you play it down to zero or ask support to remove it so that you can accept another offer. In other words, it will probably stick around for you to play on until you either reach a cashable total or go bust.

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