Casino warnings are not trivial . . . another good one from Coolcat

Sorry if this has been beat to death or is in the wrong section but it's got to be told.

So I played at Coolcat despite the warnings here and elsewhere about slow pay/no pay because they're usually followed by some kind of caveat that says something to the effect: "but, they do pay as long as no deception has been comitted or any rules have been broken." Well, Apparantly even that's not true anymore. Consider the following transaction:

A site operator will be with you momentarily. Please be reminded, in order to ensure your future deposits and withdrawals are processed efficiently, it is very important to verify that we have your current personal information updated in our system along with any documentation necessary for withdrawals. Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Linda'. How can I help you?
Linda: Welcome to Cool Cat Casino! How may I help you?
Linda: Good evening!
Me Hi, I requested a withdrawal yesterday and it appears that it was denied and the funds were confiscated. Can you tell me what is going on with this?
Linda: Just a moment while I check your account!
Linda: Thank you for waiting!
Linda: I am sorry but I see your withdrawal was denied due to you mixed deposits with free chips and that is against casino rules, which is why the winnings were voided and we placed back your deposit in the account for you to use a bonus and start from scratch
Linda: You just need to go ahead and choose a bonus to redeem
Me I was not aware that the deposit could not be withdrawn as well as it is usually cited as a "fraud prevention" measure for new accounts and can be withdrawn along w/winnings.
Linda: I am sorry but I see that you deposited $25 and the minimum to redeem a bonus is $30
Linda: Actually we could have taken the deposit as well, but we know you did not mixed transactions on purpose which is why we are giving you a second chance to play your deposit
Me That has been my experience so far, although not at RTG casinos. This is a simple honest mistake which does not seem to me to warrant such hasty action.
Me If you know this was not done purposefully, then I don't see why your action has to be so prompt and permanent. I made every effort to remain within your specified rules, w/no intentional deviations.
Me Can you point me to the clause that would have allowed you to confiscate the deposit as well?
Linda: We know that, which is why we credited the deposit back in your account for you to have another chance to cash out
You are not currently in a chat session.
You are not currently in a chat session.

Maybe I should say that the terms I saw for this offer on this site were not exactly the same as when I registered and accepted the offer - on their site blackjack was included per their terms; dollar for dollar along w/all other included games (slots, etc.). Needless to say, I was pretty shocked to see this but never came on this site or any other anouncing it to the masses because I assumed it would just be a steady downhill run anyway. Again I was shocked as my balance continued to climb (through some serious positive variance no doubt) to almost double my starting bank. Well then  . . .

What this boils down to is they deliberately confiscated a $380 win off an exclusive no deposit bonus from this site for really no reason whatsoever. I completed playthrough per their terms playing blackjack, actually ending around $700 or so on a $400 max cash-out offer. And I played a few hands too many before noticing that playthrough had been reached and they had already removed the overage funds automatically. So I ended at $380. Made the min. deposit of $25 and requested a withdrawal of $405. And I had looked at their terms & conditions beforehand and never saw anything that said this was not allowed. In fact, I've done this multiple times at Rival casinos w/no issue whatsoever. This withdrawal was through ewalletxpress as were all the others. So they are not saying I duplicated accounts or played excluded games or any such thing; they even say they agree that what they dispute was completely understandable.

Now let's see if they just kindly return my actual deposit when I attempt to withdraw since it's so convienently below eligibility for any bonus offer anyway.

Yes, no?

Sorry 2 hear about your troubles w/ Cool Cat; I stopped depositing w/ RTG long ago when I realized they make up their own rules as they go along.  They'll do anything 2 get out of paying a player their winnings.  I know, however, that some of us on here have had positive experiences w/ RTGs.... I have not.

So does anyone think they'll actually give me back my deposit? Or will they just take that too if I try to withdraw it? They've already said they "could have taken that too". They were just being generous by letting me keep it and play it w/out any bonus.  >:(

Hi Brad

you can post your complaint HERE

Zuga

Brad, theres just one question i have i'm a little confused about, are you asking for that 25 deposit you made right before requesting the cash-out?

If you in no way touched that money, then yes you should get that back, along with your money you requested the withdraw and got denied is what i think, why are they keeping money you won?

Do as Zuga says and make your complaint where he has "here" it really does help to do that, might take a few days but talking to the right people helps.. LCB has good direct casino support!

And as commented, i also have stopped with RTG's, i love them they are fun, but i will not put money into them, they start out good then turn out bad, as others have said "make up their own rules as they go along"

There is one good rtg, inetbet, although at time can be slow at paying not as bad as others of the RTG groups, but to me they are trust worthy IF you do all the right things

Imagin,  yes I was asking for the $25 deposit along w/my winnings. My winnings totaled $380 so I made a min $25 deposit prior to requesting a withdrawal, which in my experience is usually required for account verification and I believed I had seen the same stipulation somewhere in Coolcats terms as well. So once the deposit was approved I then requested a withdrawal of $405 without playing any of the deposit money. I've done this at multiple Rival's w/no problems at all but this is the first RTG I've played at much less tried to withdraw from. If this practice was restricted then I didn't know it - and I did research it beforehand, but I may have missed something. Stranger things have happened. So far this is the only reason that's been offered for confiscating my winnings but I will do as Zuga suggested and put the problem to the proper rep as soon as I can. Having some connection probs right now. The alarming thing is that there was no dialogue from the casino at all before taking action. Day after the request all funds except my deposit had been removed.

Well, after a few discussions back and forth with Marty's fellow casino rep Claudia I thought that this problem was well on it's way to an honest and satisfactory resolution. But more recent happenings show this may not be the case anymore. Not long ago I had received an email from Claudia proclaiming the good news that my funds had been replaced and my cashout was set to be processed as soon as a couple of docs were received. But by the time I attempted to log on and verify this my account had been locked - not only at coolcat but at Captain Jacks casino as well, where I had barely started making the WR's on a sign up bonus.

Here is the response I received upon inquiring about all this:

Dear changed


Please be advised that our Casino accepts recreational players only , based on your profile activity you’ve been qualified as an advance or Professional Player . Therefore you won’t be able to play with us any more . Your Payout will be process within the established time frame  . Send us the  paper work at your earliest convenience. I really appreciate your cooperation and understanding . If you have any further questions or concerns , feel free to contact me back at any time .

Regards

Claudia Villa

ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT

Email: claudia.v@casinosupportcenter.com
Phone: 1- 8.77 7.676.926 – Ext.6063

And my response:

Claudia,

Are you serious!? What profile could you possibly be talking about? This is the first and only bonus that I've played at coolcat or any other RTG casino for that matter. The only others that I've played and cashout out on have been at a handful of rival casino's and this was months ago - and I didn't even cash those out until weeks or months after I had completed wagering. And all of those were on slot play by the way.

I've never been accused of having multiple accounts or breaking any other terms either. So this is what it takes to be labeled a professional player at your casino's? One win on the first and only bonus that I've played there - and I didn't even get to play out the one I was using at Captain Jacks casino before being locked out of there too. I was aware of the reputation of virtual group, but I guess this is what I get for being optimistic.

end response ---

I will try to play along and see if I can at least receive payment as I've now been promised twice via email, but as you can imagine I'm not too optimistic of this either. Will keep you posted.

Really unbelievable.  Not only this response so far, but the fact that all of this has been taking place through email, in effect behind closed doors. Where is the transparency that should be taking place through the forums on this site. Isn't that what the "direct casino reps" section is all about? If you haven't noticed, I did as Zuga suggested and reposted my issue there as well. And although I've received some assistance, not one bit of it has been public; there have been no public responses to my problem on this board. So what's the point of the section then if every attempt is made to keep the resolution processed undisclosed and away from public scrutiny? Why not just post the email address of the reps and let it go from there? That's what's happening anyway.

And here is Claudia's very prompt and polite but thoroughly confusing reply to my response above:

Dear Brad

Please understand we are not accusing you of having multiples accounts or nothing like it . The casino reserves de admission rights .  The decision was taken by upper management after reviewing your account . Your payout will be process within the standard time frame established and I will be happy to assist you through this process . I don’t want you to feel like your business is not appreciated , simply your game line falls into a skilled player profile and as I mentioned before we can only accept recreational players.  I appreciate your understanding , please feel free to contact me back any time .

Regards

Claudia Villa

So basically they are saying - as they're showing me the door:  "We very much appreciated your patronage while you were here. Please don't come back and see us anymore. It's not personal mind you, it's just business."  :-\

One chip. One win. One barring. One withdrawal . . . possibly; that's yet to come.

But maybe all is not lost just yet. Maybe a lesson has been learned here that others can benefit from; perhaps some of those recent posters w/some bit of trepidation about playing online casinos (particularly those within the group in question here) or just seeking to learn all they possibly can within these pages and thus maximize their chances of winning and withdrawing, especially while playing blackjack (assuming it's allowable per the casino's terms).

All is not always as it seems on the surface. As it turns out, utilizing the readily available and mathmatically proven optimal basic strategy chart for the casino and blackjack variant you are playing and flat betting the minimum allowable bet so as to reduce your variance as much as possible until you reach the casinos published and self-set wagering requirements is not always the optimal strategy for a blackjack playable bonus. Although this information is quickly available to any beginner who takes even the remotest interest in researching the best games and strategies with which to play, utilizing it could easily have you labeled a professional before you can say "now, where's that second bonus?".

Just as with land-based casino blackjack play, there are other intangibles that you must take into consideration beyond the mathematics and memory before deciding to play any particular game/bonus; i.e. your goals and your appearance. How long or often, in terms of trips, sessions, or in our case bonuses/deposits, would you like to play in this casino? Are you there to just take the (hopefully free) money and run as quickly as possible, w/no intention of looking or coming back? Or would you like to also enjoy some of the other deposit bonuses, monthly reloads, birthday chips or other offers that are commonly issued by large well known establishments? If the latter, then you must also take into consideration how you will appear to the casino should you actually implement a well published readily available optimal strategy as described above - despite the fact that is in itself a slightly negative expectation strategy. Yes, you saw that right if you didn't know it before. The strategy outlined above and recommended all across the web, including many casinos themselves, is both an optimal and a losing strategy in the long run.

Might I suggest another approach then? One that is admittedly somewhat less optimal but more heavily weighted toward risk aversion - risk of being barred or unfairly labeled that is. Don't worry if you're just starting out; this approach is even simpler than the basic strategy/flat betting approach outlined above, and probably a lot more fun. Here is what I propose:

First of all, do make sure before you play any bonus w/this strategy that blackjack is in fact allowable and counts toward the wagering requirements. You simply cannot get around this should you happen to make the requirements and attempt to withdraw any winnings due to you.

Now prepare for your session by making sure that you do not, repeat, do not have any form of basic strategy chart available for you to reference - no webpages, printed charts, flash cards, etc. It will not matter anyway and will be of no use, but I do not want you to be tempted. If you are a regular player and already have this info commited to memory then you'll just have to use some willpower and refrain from referencing it. If you've not played blackjack online before, you will soon see that some strategy decisions/rule implementations have been made for you by the software anyway so this may make things slightly less complicated.  It's true that some of these mandates are not in your favor to begin with, but, they are sometimes offset by other allowances that are ... well ... also not usually in your favor - like splitting tens, for example. But that's neither here nor there. There's nothing we can do about that if we want to play the game. So, moving on . . .

There are two basic decisions in any hand of blackjack; how much to bet and how to play your cards, so this strategy will have two basic components. Before any hand plays out you are first required to place your bet, so we'll begin here. If you have played this game before, or have been much involved in any type of gambling, you are probably aware that there are all sorts of systems out there designed to structure and restructure your bet placements ranging from a simple flat betting approach (utilized above) to some very complex systems based around fibonacci sequences and other weird, esoteric crap like that. Forget about these if you already know them and don't bother learning if you don't. We want to utilize or mimic none of them.

Determining bet size is the only part of this system that will require a little bit of work but it's work that can be utilized over and over again in any situations like this where an actual optimized basic strategy approach is contraindicated. You will notice as you look at the the table layout many different bettable chip denominations usually starting from $1 to $5 and progressing through $25, $100, $500 and even higher denomination chips, all of which can themselves be bet incrementally - you might bet 1, 2, 3 or more of each chip up to the next denomination. So, in order to achieve the randomness we are looking for you will need to make a stack of flash cards each citing a single denomination and the number of chips to bet at that denomination from one to whatever the next highest denomination is. Do this w/each chip denomination that you are allowed to bet, although you might want to use some discretion with the highest number of chips to bet at the middle and next to highest levels to avoid betting out of your comfort range; this is up to you and your tolerance for risk. The table itself will limit the number of chips that can be bet at the highest denomination. Keep all of these cards face down and simply shuffle them around in some way that rearranges them every few rounds or just draw off the top like a reqular deck of cards until you reach the last one. Whatever you draw will be your bet size unless your balance will not allow it in which case you simply draw until you reach an amount that is betable. Simple right?

Finally, for your playing decisions; this part may be much easier and less time consuming unless you don't already know the game and would like to research all of the different options so that you know how the game is progressing - although you will not actually be making these play decisions here - at least not deliberately. I do encourage you to do this research however, not just so that you have a better understanding of what's going on as the game is progressing, but because you will likely find yourself in situations where you actually do have a chance and an actual optimized basic strategy and uniform or well-thought-out betting approach is not only do-able, but recommended. The approach here though is quite a bit easier since it requires much less discipline and none of the thinking/memorization of a basic strategy approach. Simply place your cursor in the vicinity of the various play/strategy buttons, close your eyes, and click, click, click, click, click, click ... real fast ... while wildly moving your cursor over the area of the buttons for maybe two to four seconds. NO PEEKING. Now open your eyes and see if you hit anything. Has something changed? Great! You played a hand!! BIG FUN!!! Now, is the hand completed or is the screen prompting you to make another decision? If it is asking for another move, repeat as before. See, I told you! It's simply really. And there should be no pattern to pick up on now labeling you as a pro.

Just do this until you bust or make the wagering requirements and see if they'll hassle you then.  :-\

its coolcat, its generally considered rogue
my advice?..move on, find a better casino; why do you even want to play there if they dont want you?

I don't want to play there anymore after all this. I just want what I deserve; my winnings from the exclusive chip I played from this site. I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous their exclusion system is and putting another message out there for people to avoid them.

The few success stories you see w/this casino are just what they appear to be, exceptions. I only played based on citations that they do in fact pay winning players, albeit slowly, if in fact no violations have been commited. And because the bonus was suprisingly good for todays standards - and substantially different from what was actually posted on this site.

Had I come across experiences and evidence like what I've posted here, I wouldn't have even bothered.

Thanks for your support though.

thats why there's warning flags, and honestly, theres alot of other forums out there that tell you the same thing: avoid it!
i know it sucks, not getting the , but well, thats why its labelled rogue
research anywhere u play; even one that looks good can always screw you over, it's just that some are more likely, at least as far as player expereinces and their credibility
theres so many good ones out there...sadly, just write this one off, shake your head, say damn well, mow i know, and play somewhere else

Brad... because you know how to play the game, and because you have won.. they don't want you? So basically they want people who blindly deposit their money, don't know how to play the games and have no intentions on winning? Thats not gambling or is it? When and what qualifies that makes you become a skilled player, do they not have players that have deposited and played for years? That really gets me... what am i.. recreational or skilled player, i've been gambling for over 10 years.. i play for fun yes, i play to win too yes.... gosh..

They took your deposited money without exceptions...

You must not live in the US.

Imagin, yeah they didn't have any problem taking my deposit. They never do, do they? Rhetorial question.

lol, no, I'm Canadian, im lucky i get the microgamings, sorry

Brad - glad you will eventually be paid and thank you for your very helpful info.  It's not a game I play too often but I have seen the charts you are referring to and contemplated using them but decided against it.

blue

Blue, I hope you mean you decided against playing it altogether rather than playing and ignoring the optimal basic strategy for whatever casino and rule variations you're playing, going by hunches or something like that. Otherwise you're just shooting yourself in the foot going into a game that you may very well be limping away from anyway.

I'm sure you use pot odds, implied odds and sound strategy decisions in your poker playing right?

I definetly had my experiences with RTG and am not a fan, i love the slots though and poker is fun with rtg too, i always got slammed with some kind of reasons.. i had maybe 10 successful withdraws but this was years back.. i know one was prism (waited a long time, it was my very first rtg casino, withdrawed on a straight deposit about 6 or 7 years ago) the others have been with inetbet and they are good, still a member although i have not played or deposited with them in a while, at least a year the last time i played was a small freebie and a bd chip...

the information you have here is good to know, i never knew about these rules and excuses with the RTG's first time ever seeing about "skilled players" i only play slots though don't know if they can tell if you are skilled playing slots does it make a difference?

Well, if someone had a substantial history of play using only blackjack to clear bonuses such as the one I played (or w/even better terms) across alot of different casinos and many different bonuses then I would expect them to be labeled as a "bonus abuser" or "advanced, skilled or professional" player at some point. That's what blackjack whoring is (or was) all about. But that was due to the nature of the game - and more importantly, the nature of the bonuses that allowed the game to be played: high/no-limit cashouts, low wager requirements, etc. So of course people that picked up the knowledge to do so attacked these opportunities like ravenous wolves. But I'm getting to the party a few years too late. BJ whoring is basically dead now due to the conditions of the bonuses, especially here in the states. For me, that bonus is the only bonus I've ever cleared playing Blackjack. All the others, which were through rival casinos, have been cleared on slots since that was the only allowable game.

I don't know if they would label someone as "skilled" just through slot play only, but I suspect they have done so in the past and will do it again if the mood strikes them. In fact, I can recall posts on this site from players claiming just this - TAADAA is one that comes to mind iirc. There are many others, I just can't place them right now. The ironic thing about that is I would assume that slots are exactly what they would prefer that I play; they are the highest house edge games in the casino except for keno and possible a couple of others (and some specific bets on the table games).  But there are also a lot of complaints here and elsewhere about banning, slow/non-payment and other issues w/this casino group and I suspect the vast majority of those are coming from primarily slot players. Whether it's happened as quickly as it did in my case, I don't know. But there's lots of complaints.

Yes Brad - I decided against playing blackjack. 

blue

  smh im glad for the warnings i agree wholeheartdly with dtsweet theres lots of good casinos out that will treat you with respect .Im soooooo sorry this happened to you and thanks for giving people who are considering ignoring the warning sign a prime example of what not to ignore.It will save you a lot of trouble