JACKPOT WINS THAT GO UNPAID & WARNING ABOUT BETSOFT

Over the years, I have read the agonizing details of players winning a progressive, only to be denied a cash out. Ouch, it hurts my feelings just reading about it, so I am sure it leaves a nasty mental scar on any player who has ever had the misfortune of experiencing it.

One incident several years ago, involved FlaFlash99 hitting the progressive on Molten Moolah at Lotus. I believe it was a $25k jackpot, it was advertised on their Facebook & the casino alike, but it was never paid out. Everyone involved knew the casino didn't allow progressive games to be played on bonus funds, however FlaFlash99's argument was that the bonus had rolled over the wagering requirement & the progressive's therefore became unlocked for play. The casino's response was that the player won the bonus funds in a free tournament ~ making it a free bonus and voiding any progressive play. Flash continued to fight claiming the tournament was not free, because he used his loyalty points to enter, rather then the free code that is available to players. Ultimately, the casino had clear terms & conditions on freebie/progressive restrictions and as painful as it was, that jackpot went unclaimed.

Recently, a player named Jason Ortmeier hit five yachts on BetSoft's Glam Life slot, while playing at BetCoin, a bitcoin poker/casino/sportsbook/forum site that I frequent. Jason brought the inquiry to BetCoin, who forwarded it to BetSoft. BetCoin claims BetSoft does not recognize the 5 yacht symbols that Jason hit as a jackpot because he had entered free spin mode & therefore that does not count. Jason argues that the paytable states clearly "5 yachts icons on max bet wins the jackpot on any active play line". He was betting max bet on every spin, at the highest value ($1). He also argues that no where on the machine, pay table or in the casino's terms & conditions does it say that free-spins are ineligible for the jackpot. Furthermore, BetSoft's Greedy Goblins slot does have exactly that wording regarding their free-spin mode not qualifying for the multiplier on jackpots. The attached image shows that BetSoft automatically lowers Jason's $1 max bet to a $.50 max bet during the free spins. Almost like a safety net to protect them from a high payout on a free-spin.

This scenario is not quite as cut and dry as the FlaFlash/Lotus jackpot fiasco, so I wonder what you all think? There is quite a bit more regarding this issue online. Even allegations of cheating. Since most of this discussion takes part on other forums, I am leaving it up to you guys to find out whether or not you need to put the brakes on giving BetSoft any of your gambling dollars. I am going out on a limb here, but I think that Casinolistings.com is a sister-site of LCB.. at least I hope that is true since I am going to link them here now

https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/06/warning-avoid-all-betsoft-slots-and-casino-games


I realize that I should not be posting links to another portal, however this is extremely important information, especially to my fellow bitcoin players who are force-fed BetSoft games much too often at bitcoin casinos.

I feel terrible to the players who hit the jackpot
I could not believe this story but online casino could be very complicated nowadays.
Reading the T&C is required if you play at online casinos and if you don't it could be very frustrating.
I feel sorry for you guys

I did read it somewhere that Jackpot could not be won during free spins (about a few years ago? and I can't remember where but it stated in the payout table.

To be honest I don't really like BetSoft games/software and I always stick to my favorite softwares like NetEnt and Microgaming.

Online casinos has been always complicated that landbased casinos and that is one of the reason why.
I am truly deeply sorry for you guys and I hope you'll have better luck next time.

yes CL is LCBs partner site so you are good Jenna

that is correct CasinoListings is our sister website, so this reference link is more than welcomed.

p.s.

we have contacted Bovada/Slots.lv regarding this and will update everyone once we hear back.

I am the player in question that had the winning spin.  I just want to clear up a few of the details so you can all make an informed decision about whether or not I should have won, and if you want to continue to play BetSoft Games.  I was wagering at the .50 level, so my bet was not reduced during the free spins mode.  The jackpot adjusts up or down with the denomination.  The first response I received back from BetSoft via the casino I was playing at was that the jackpot was only payed out at the 1.00 denomination at the max bet.  This is obviously false as the jackpot increases or decreases when you change your denomination.  The second response was that it wasn't paid because it was hit on a spin during free spins mode.  This is the crux of my argument, and why BetSoft won't pay.  See the attached archive of photos of my spin, the pay table at the time of my spin (important because suspiciously and after the fact BetSoft has now added language to the paytable for The Glam Life exempting free spins from winning the jackpot), examples from other BetSoft games limiting the jackpot during free spins, and their new edited pay table for "The Glam Life" which they have changed since my spin.

Image archive:

imgur.com/a/hx7Ht

Hi jasonort,

Yes definitely you should have won the JP.

Im attaching your image

oh wow... what a bunch of scammers. Jason you should hire a lawyer. This is way too much money to just let it go....

WOW! I was curious as to why Slotlv took off the progressives on the site. Now I know:( Hopefully they will be back sometime. In the mean time don't think I will be depositing there. Sorry this happened to you Jason; but TY for bringing it "forward". I didn't think us US player's had any rights when it came to online gaming.

I'm pretty shocked with this Betsoft situation since I played their games many times in the past.

I agree that Jason should have won the progressive jackpot. First explanation about not betting maximum stake does not stand since you are required to bet maximum coins to hit the jackpot, but the amount of jackpot varies depending on the coin size. So instead getting for example 1 million when betting 1 dollar coin, you would win 0.5 million on $0.5 or something like that.

Fact that Betsoft changed their paytable is even worse. They may change it, but we have a slot screenshot of that part of paytable in our review here - https://lcb.org/view/slots/betsoft/1640/The-Glam-Life

There is also report on Casinolistings that JennaROX mentioned where some extremely shady things are described. Additionally, it seems that Slots.lv has removed all of the Betsoft progressive games from their site.

We have just issued a warning too :  https://lcb.org/article/warning-betsoft-progressives-problem

thanks Jenna for posting the link,. thanks CL and thanks LCB for following up on this story.

I been saying this for years. I even got into it with the reps over a bitcasino about BETSOFT games being rigged. Now I see im right. I maybe harsh sometimes but i know what im talking about (sometimes)

This is horrible to read! I do have 1 question though, other casino's listed here have this game and other Betsoft games, are they aware of this?

Also, when looking at the paytable the first picture is exactly the same as the jackpot yacht. So how do they make the distinction of that symbol being the jackpot or not when they have 2 different payouts? There are no other symbols that are exactly alike other than the yachts.

That observation really makes me think Betsoft is not on the up and up!

LH

We took upon ourselves to contact all the casinos hosting these games and let them know about this.

Just another crooked casino online, it is just not fair for Jason who obviously won and should be paid everydime and depending on where you are located if online gaming is legal i would hire a lawyer to see if you could go after them for what they owe yyou...rose

Jackpot incidents at Lotus casino is really ugly. They have their own T&Cs to be observed by players, but, if the player clear the requirement, then the casino should release the fund from prohibitive clause. Moreover, if he redeemed the Loyalty points, it means that he was a depositing player with some deposits rolled over at least a few thousands dollars.

If it is a sheer abuser, yes, I think that all casinos can apply the T&Cs in a stricter way. But, in this case, it seems that casino just took the Jackpot from the winner.

And regarding the CasinoListings on BetSoft Jackpot issue, I have been an ardent member of CasinoListings. CL-Ed is really great in helping and advising the members. And I have been reading the article when new comments were added from time to time.

And only a few days ago, CL published the long investigative article on the Betsoft issue.
The other day, I was just browsing the posts and comments as I frequently do in CL.
The website suddenly got slowed and knocked down in a few seconds.

Today, CL-Ed just posted a message in the access page informing that CL is moving to another server. We have to wait for him, but, I suspect that Betsoft attacked the CL, right after finding the very thorough article published.

Anyway, thank for your good post.

All things considered, Jason should have been payed the jackpot.

Casinos removing the compromised games also says something.

On the other hand, I don't think waging legal battles would do him much good - going against corporate lawyers is not a good idea.

Just a bit of follow-up for those monitoring this story... Bovada sent this email out this morning....

Hey Jenna,

Please note that we are performing a game library update today.
  We'd like to apologize for any inconvenience this may cause as we recognize that a number of these games featured progressive jackpots that were very popular with our players. We are exploring options now to replace those jackpot games, please stay tuned for more details later this week.
  Moving forward, the following games will no longer be available:
 

    2 Million BC
    A Night in Paris
    After Night Falls
    Arrival
    At The Movies
    Aztec Treasures
    Back in Time
    Barbary Coast
    Black Gold
    Boomanji
    Common Draw Roulette
    Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde
    Enchanted
    Event Horizon
    Fruit Zen
    Genie's Fortune
    Gladiator
    Gold Diggers
    Gypsy Rose
    Heist
    House of Fun
    It Came From Venus
    Lost
    Lucky 7
    Mad Scientist
    Madder Scientist
    Mamma Mia
    More Gold Diggin'
    Ned and his Friends
    Once Upon A Time
    Paco and the Popping Peppers
    Pinocchio
    Puppy Love Plus
    RockStar
    Rook's Revenge
    Royal Reels
    Safari Sam
    Seventh Heaven
    Skratcherz
    SlotFather
    SugarPop
    Sushi Bar
    The Curious Machine
    The Exterminator
    The True Sheriff
    True Illusions
    Under the Bed
    Under the Sea
    Viking Age
    Virtual RaceBook
    Weekend in Vegas
    Who Spun it?

If there should be any mediation or legal battle, I believe this action, by such a large, respected casino, speaks volumes about the integrity of BetSoft & may help Jason's case ~ at least I hope it will. 

thanks for posting the email Jenna,

in addition i have to commend Bovada for doing the right thing and being fast to react

Well I am glad Bovada has stepped up and is doing something about BetSoft games! Now if other casinos would follow suit that would be great!

thanks for the post Jennarox . Always good to see a casino being on top of things

Nicely done Jenna! I am very happy to see some changes regarding Betsoft screw up. You have my respect Bovada

and not a peep from Betsoft. they should be jailed and refund all players

Hi everyone! I am glad so many of you took an interest in this situation, as it could have been any one of us in Jason's shoes.

This afternoon, Betcoin announced a resolution between BetSoft & Jason. Betcoin facilitated the negotiations that have taken place over the past 2 weeks. After reading Jason's comment, I believe BetCoin did a wonderful job in supporting their player's best interest. This makes me particularly happy because I play at Betcoin every single day & have become attached to the community there.

HERE IS THE OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM BETCOIN.AG


From the very second our great player jasonort came to us with his casino related issue, Betcoin.ag took immediate action working with the software provider to understand, explain and then complete a proper resolution of the matter. We were asked and chose to remain silent on the matter to the public because statements would only cause speculation which would not be conducive to what we believed would be a proper outcome.

The Betcoin.ag staff spent hours every day working and speaking with jasonort and the software provider to do what we thought was right for our great players. It took just over two weeks and many hours to complete what all parties believe is a proper and fair resolution. We would have it no other way.

Throughout this entire process jasonort can attest to the fact that the Betcoin.ag staff made ourselves available nearly 24/7 to answer every question and provide proper updates when available as we would have done for all of our great players. jasonort was also clear to never blame Betcoin.ag for this issue as this was clearly a software issue and would have happened on any other online casino.

Throughout this entire circumstance jasonort continued to play at Betcoin.ag and so did many new and old Betcoin.ag players. We are very thankful for that. We will always do the right thing at Betcoin.ag for our great players and we look forward to being your favorite place to play for many years to come. Thank you!

Jason replied to the above statement with the following comment

jasonort: Betcoin.ag has supported me throughout this process.
5 hours 18 min ago

I want to thank Betcoin.ag staff for helping me come to a resolution with BetSoft on the matter of my spin on "The Glam Life". I have said in my forum posts on bitcointalk.org and other places that my issue was with BetSoft and not Betcoin. Andrew and the staff at Betcoin.ag have always been good to me, and have continued to support me in this matter with BetSoft. They were unfortunately caught in the middle of this situation as the BetSoft slots are played directly on BetSoft servers, and they not Betcoin.ag decide the payouts for the slots. Andrew has helped to connect me with BetSoft, and today we have come to a mutually agreed upon settlement. This settlement is confidential, so please don't ask the details. I will continue to play with Betcoin.ag, and hold no ill feelings towards them, quite the contrary. I look forward to continuing my relationship with Betcoin.ag and feel very good about their actions in helping me to resolve this matter.

Obviously they paid him some small amount (relative to 350k jackpot) in exchange for posting how awesome Betcoin is.

Should consider Jasons response above essentially Betcoin responding to themselves.

I'm sure jason is just thrilled despite being not paid 300k+

Pathetic really.

I cannot comment further than I have already done in the statement posted here, but I do want say thank you to JennaROX and all members of the community here for the support you have shown me.  It is very much appreciated.

He cant comment because betcoin doesn't want him to talk, which is the only reason they gave him anything at all.

If something's broken, you can fix it but it will never be the same.
in this case Betcoin.ag broke the player's trust.

good to hear about Bovada pulling the plug on Betsoft games. And also good to hear about Jason getting (some) money back.

They probably agreed to a settlement, and nowhere near the JP amount, but its probably still a nice chunk.
Im positive they asked Jason not to comment on the details of the settlement, and only to give an update that the agreement was struck.

It is so that Betcoin.ag "clear" their name, but I think the damage was already done. They did misled and lied to Jason and gave him bunch of BS excuses . Only after the JP drama was published on gambling forums and after much negative feedback is that this deal was struck.

I do not blame Jason for not divulging more information. I am happy they will get paid something at least.

we should not believe jason is satisfied or that he was treated ok

its obv they made him agree to say the things he said, if he didnt they maybe would give him nothing

they are not protecting themselves from lawsuit or anything like that, there is no reason to make a player not talk about your site unless are doing dishonest things

betcoin should be blacklisted on all sites, they are not to be trusted

I truly hope that Jasonort is happy with the settlement, with that being said, I still think something isn't right here. If Bitcoin was so supportive, why did they give him bogus excuses as to why he didn't win the PJP in the first place? Why would Jasonort keep playing at a place that just screwed him out of 350 grand? It doesn't make sense.

Bovada did the right thing here, they pulled all Betsoft games, other casinos like Vegas Crest (that is the only casino I play at that still has those games up and running, they have never pulled them) should do the same thing. IF Betsoft can make sure that PJP games can never been won, I can only imagine what they can do to all other games. I am on the fence about playing any of the Beftsoft games any casino offers now.

I really hope that no one pulls their warnings for this casino or casino software because to me that would be an injustice to ALL players. Something like this happening to 1 player is all it takes for a casino and casino software providers true colors to be seen!

All the best,
LH

Jason is definitely not satisfied but he cant say much. they probably made him sign a NDA plus a document that he accepts the X amount and wont be claiming anything beyond that X amount after being paid.

all in all it is a rip off

Thanks Jenna for this post.. it was very interesting to read. am glad that bovada acted quickly in removing betsoft slots. Hope others follow. As for Jason am glad he did get something. I once hit a jackpot at bingo and the very next day they closed. There was nothing I could do. Sometime something is better than nothing. Hopefully this will not happen again. 

That is complete rubbish that they didn't still give you the money you won, if they was still open, they should have still paid you your jackpot win,

What bingo site was it?

there is still no official statement from Betsoft. it only shows they don't give a rats a$$ about the players