RESOLVED - Juicy Stakes took my $5000

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    Last post ago about 6 years by alfreed
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        This is a bold faced lie. There was no max withdrawal term, that I am 100% sure of.

        Is the best lie they can come up with after a month and a half? Why did they not mention this before?

        BTW  am currently not able to log into my Juicy Stakes account, the login-field is missing...
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        Actually its not a lie. It is right there in their T&Cs :

        http://juicystakes.com/promotions/bonus-rules.aspx

        3. Bonus Codes and Coupon Codes are virtual money bonuses given to casino customers for promotional purposes only. Customers cannot withdraw the bonus money immediately after receiving it.

        5. Withdrawals of winnings earned from any Coupon Code or Bonus Code may not exceed the specific campaign limits and in any case $50. All remaining funds exceeding the $50 will be forfeited when cashing out

        alfreed  in your case you made $300 deposit meaning your campaign limit is $300 ( max cashout ).

        Ill keep you all update about the withdrawal.

        cheers
        Zuga
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        Those terms refer to no-deposit bonuses. If those applied to my deposit I would only be able to withdraw  $50, not $300.

        Deposit bonuses are referred to further down.

        This is the email I was sent:



        Note that there was no link to any special terms and conditions.

        These are their bonus terms and conditions:





        The terms were also on the coupon, which I posted in my original post. THERE WAS NO MAX WITHDRAWAL TERM. I am very careful about reading terms and conditions.

        Who in their right mind woud wager their deposit and bonus umpteen times only to be allowed to withdraw their deposit?

        You honestly think this is OK by the casino?
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        Funny how silent everyone here got.

        Got another email from the casino today. According to them, I would have been able to withdraw the bonus as well as my deposit if I had met the wagering requirement. Again, this does not fit with the terms you quoted Zuga, that the maximum that can be withdrawn is $50. Which supports my interpretation that those terms apply to no-deposit bonuses. Anything else is as you say predatory, and I would say downright fraudulent. Because the chance of coming out ahead is 0. No court would support Juicy Stakes in this case. This is not gambling, it's fraud.

        Back to the $300 bonus balance. Of course, bonus funds expire after 90 days. It's been (just) over 90 days since they took my balance. So I did not have the chance to complete the wagering requirement.

        Just a final spit in the face. They'er having a good ol' time over at Juicy Stakes, one excuse more ridiculous after another. It's like they don't even bother to come up with a anything resembling a good reason. They're trying to come up with the most ridiculous reason possible. For kicks. Because they don't think I can touch them. But we'll see about that.

        I don't really care about the measly bonus. The theft here is for $4700, not $300. It is so obvious that they set up to defraud me right at the start. This is the most blatant and ridiculous case of casino theft I have ever encountered.
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        I read the email you got alfreed. I agree that you were playing a "Match Bonus" which is 12X wagering. So I am agreed they're ripping you off totally.

        They are now on my "No play" list.

        Zuga, not being picky, but he was playing a "Match Bonus" which has different terms from what I can see. I do understand there's ND bonus and coupon Bonus, but also "Match Bonus" which he was playing.

        I really feel they're cheating Alfreed out of his money.
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        Thank you for your support, genenco.

        What the casino refers to are terms that were on the bonus coupon in the lobby. They claim that it says that I can't withdraw more than $300. I read those terms carefully, posted a partial screenshot in my OP, and there are no terms saying that.

        Here is a screen shot of the the wording on the first deposit bonus as it appears in the lobby:



        The important term here is apparently "you may not receive more than $500 in real money. Excess bonus money will be void after conversion" (on my bonus this is $300 obviously).

        Is it reasonable to interpret those words as "you may not withdraw more than $300"?

        Nowhere does it say in any detail how this "bonus system" works. How is your balance separated into bonus and real money balance. As in do you wager bonus or deposit first, what happens when you wager and win off either balance, how is your bonus "converted" etc etc. A bonus that is such so huge no-win for the player, has got to be explained in some detail. This is just a huge trap. Beyond rogue.

        I actually don't believe that this is how the bonus system is meant to work, it's just and excuse from a casino that can't afford to, or don't want to pay winners. If the bonus system was meant to work like that, why did they not inform me of this in any of the many email exchanges I've had over the last month and a half about my missing $5k?
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        I can see where they might limit you to $500 cashout, maybe, but that's still a stretch.  Best of luck getting a straight and reasonable answer and all of your winnings.
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        I think they way they word it and then have another page explaining "Other Terms" is so confusing I'd hesitate (Severely) even playing.

        Sad to say, but I'm guessing that the best they'll do is "Possibly" refund deposit. I hate it when casinos screw over players and frankly, there's little the player can do to recover their money (Or even winnings)

        Zuga, this is rather confusing. Am I reading all this right or is there soemthing you see that I don't?
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        Apparently, Juicy Stakes is owned by a company called "CN Payment Services LImited" at 42-46 High St Esher, Surrey KT10 9QY, UK. Which is here:



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        Did not really follow this case, and its rather shocking to say the least.
        One of the most blatant forms of casino fraud I've ever seen, and I've seen alot of them in the past 3 years.

        If its indeed that $500 real money term that they apply to this case, than its clearly a predatory term (winning is impossible AND the term is as vague as it can be), and this shithole should be removed from LCB immediately.

        If its not that term, its nothing but blatant theft from the casinos side and the casino should also be removed from LCB immediately.

        Its places like this that make that players lose their trust in online gambling as a whole, the do more damage than good to the entire industry and should in no way be supported or promoted by anyone.

        I really hope they decide to do the right thing and pay you Alfreed, but I'm not holding my breath to be honest.
        The way they have been handling this issue until now says alot I'm afraid.
        I can only hope I'm wrong.
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        First of let me start with saying that We've removed their bonuses from our listings as soon as I was aware of this complaint. And it will remain this way until the complaint is resolved.

        Now whether this is predatory term about the bonus itself or not is of no importance for this case as players can always choose not to take the bonus. Once you take the bonus you are obliged to follow the rules.
        I dont like this bonus term myself however again its of no importance for this complaint.

        I was told by Juicy Stakes Rep that the terms and conditions for this promo were in the lobby when the player accepted the bonus. The terms were as follows:

        December 20th, 2010 - December 31st, 2010
        Bonus Valid on deposits from $20 USD through $300 USD
        Maximum Conversion Amount: $300
        Wager Requirements: Deposit + Bonus x 25
        Expires in 30 days
        Eligible on Slot Games Only

        Now here is where this predatory term kicks in. Being that alfreed lost their initial deposit only later to win this amount playing with the bonus, he will be allowed to withdraw only the $300 as thats the max cashout according to their terms.

        Im afraid I dont think you are entitle to the whole $5k amount as this was max caped bonus, however Ill try to get you paid the $600 and see if they can exclude this predatory term from their rules.


        P.s.

        from the SS you provided alfreed it clearly states : " You may not receive more than $500 in real money. Excess bonus money will be void after conversion ".

        In your case its $300 as your initial deposit was $300, meaning the max cashout in your case is $300.

        Zuga
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        Zuga wrote:



        Now whether this is predatory term about the bonus itself or not is of no importance for this case as players can always choose not to take the bonus. Once you take the bonus you are obliged to follow the rules.
        I dont like this bonus term myself however again its of no importance for this complaint.

        Zuga


        I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this point.

        Terms should be stated in a way so that its crystal clear what they mean.
        This term is as vague as it gets.
        The fact that even you are not sure what they mean exactly says it all.

        Further, I think casinos should not come up with terms that make it IMPOSSIBLE to win. Thats just insane.
        Who in his right mind would expect that??
        I've never ever seen such a term before. Never.
        I can fully understand that casinos want to protect themselves from bonushunters and fraudsters, but this is really the most ludicrous example of a player trap I've ever seen. >:( >:(

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        Terms should be stated in a way so that its crystal clear what they mean.
        This term is as vague as it gets.
        The fact that even you are not sure what they mean exactly says it all.


        I never said I wasnt sure what they meant, coz their term is pretty clear, I said I dont like this term as its predatory.

        The fact is player agreed to their T&Cs and went for a bonus. If you take the bonus you must follow the bonus rules. Its simple as that.

        We may like or dislike the specific bonus promotions but we always have the choice. You can always choose NOT to play with bonus.

        Bottom line is, this player is not eligible to withdraw the $5K because of the max cashout rule.

        Zuga
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        Zuga wrote:

        I was told by Juicy Stakes Rep that the terms and conditions for this promo were in the lobby when the player accepted the bonus. The terms were as follows:

        December 20th, 2010 - December 31st, 2010
        Bonus Valid on deposits from $20 USD through $300 USD
        Maximum Conversion Amount: $300
        Wager Requirements: Deposit + Bonus x 25
        Expires in 30 days
        Eligible on Slot Games Only

        Now here is where this predatory term kicks in. Being that alfreed lost their initial deposit only later to win this amount playing with the bonus, he will be allowed to withdraw only the $300 as thats the max cashout according to their terms.
        [/quote]

        I didn't exactly fall off the turnip truck yesterday. I've been gambling online for 5 years, and I've played at well over 50 different online casinos. I'm used to reading bonus terms and conditions and know the importance of sticking to the rules.

        But even in retrospect I cannot fathom that anyone could be of the opinion that the terms as stated "maximum bonus conversion is $300" mean what JS says they mean. And I'm sure most players would agree with me (at least those without professional ties to LCB.)

        The "maximum bonus conversion" term is utterly meaningless without any explanation as to what "bonus conversion" means and how it works.

        [quote]The fact is player agreed to their T&Cs and went for a bonus. If you take the bonus you must follow the bonus rules. Its simple as that.


        It is definitely not as simple as that. I would be willing to wager a large amount of money that JS terms would not hold water in a court of law. They are deliberately misleading.

        BTW, has LCB been receiving affiliate payments in a timely manner? I lost $1100 in that place before this win, I bet LCB's share should be at least $300. I see there are complaints about slow payments from JS's sister site, PowerPoker, elsewhere.

        The fact that they're refusing to pay even the bonus, leads me to suspect this site is tethering on bankruptcy.
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        alfreed wrote:


        But even in retrospect I cannot fathom that anyone could be of the opinion that the terms as stated "maximum bonus conversion is $300" mean what JS says they mean. And I'm sure most players would agree with me (at least those without professional ties to LCB.)



        Alfreed, I am sure Zuga has done his best. I am sorry you became the person who showed others that this casino is untrustworthy, but to take a cheap shot like this is beneath you.

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