The 'randomness' of online slot games

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    wscalley

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        wscalley

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        This is something of an eternal question and one that is fiercely debated on every gambling forum I currently frequent - except for here at LCB! So I'm fascinated to know what the members here have to say regarding their opinions and beliefs with respect to how online slot games REALLY work.

        To the best of my knowledge, none of the major game producers eg Microgaming, Playtech and Netent, publish any exact details describing the way their online slot games function, how each win is selected, or whether each players results are indeed entirely independent of those of every other player.

        Here in the UK I know for certain that many players believe online slots work in a similar way to the fruit machines we have all played in our earlier years, with wins being dependent on how much the machine has already taken each day, and the wins it has already paid out, despite the fact this is of course supposedly COMPLETELY inaccurate - online slots theoretically provide an entirely random result on every single spin, regardless of everything that has gone before, and no matter how much money each individual player has spent, or how much one specific casino has currently accepted or paid out.

        Do you believe that online slots are truely random? Or do you think that there is some amount of compensating involved? Do you believe you get the same odds on a particular game regardless of which casino you choose to play it at? Do you play at certain times of the day for some particular reason?

        My own experience: I have witnessed incredible streaks of good and bad luck at pretty much every casino I have ever played at. I do believe the machines are entirely random, although my personal preference - whether justified or not - is to play at a popular casino at the weekends when more people are playing, simply because this is when I have had my greatest 'luck'. I believe that most of the major games manufacturers do not permit individual casinos to change the payout percentage offered by their games, as they have publicly stated.

        What do YOU think?
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        Sommi

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        It's really obvious that online slots are not "truly random". Why? You can see a message "Win up to XXXXXXX coins" in most NetEnt slots. If they would be "truly random" you can get like infinity free spins - hit 3 scatters and every next spin would give you 3 scatters once again, making you win infinity amount of cash. Playing online slots is something like playing scratch cards, you spin, they calculate your winnings and just show you a set of symbols that matches your winnings.
        And I don't use any "gambling strategy" as something like this doesn't exist. All you can do is to choose low/high variance slots - to meet WR or to win big.
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        There is a huge difference between how many free spins and number of coins are awarded and the outcome of the Random Number Generator (RNG). Of course every game is set by certain guidelines including the max amount of wins, spins etc. It is part of the rules and the way the each game is unique through special features. You can't expect a game to perform outside of what it was technological built to do and award 1,000 free spins when the capacity is 100.

        The casino does have a certain amount of leverage on the RNG and the RTP. Whether the Casino has direct access or has the software adjust the RNG, it definitely is done.

        Interesting this topic was brought up because this week an in depth editorial report will be written about this very thing!

        Lips

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        wscalley

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        Looking forward to reading the editorial lipstick - I know for sure that RTG casinos have the capability to alter the tRTP of their video slots, but Microgaming and NetEnt have stated publicly that the tRTP of their games is 'set in stone' at the design stage and cannot be modified by any of the casinos offering that particular game. In the case of RTG, the reel strips are altered to provide the difference in tRTP and if this was being done elsewhere I'm sure somebody would have noticed it by now.

        With regards your point Sommi, the 'win up to xx,xxx coins' refers to the maximum possible win from a single spin - an individual bonus round can easily surpass this, if one of those free spins was the jackpot combination then it is inevitable that the final total will exceed the stated 'maximum win' - most RTG games have a built in cap for this very reason whereby any feature that exceeds the maximum stated win will immediately finish regardless of how many spins you may have remaining - I've heard of people playing Vulcan or other simillarly ultra high variance games that offer many free spins with a huge multiplier being kicked out of the feature with a whole load of spins left to run at a totally sick multiplier.. thats gotta be frustrating!!
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        Sommi

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        wscalley wrote:


        With regards your point Sommi, the 'win up to xx,xxx coins' refers to the maximum possible win from a single spin - an individual bonus round can easily surpass this, if one of those free spins was the jackpot combination then it is inevitable that the final total will exceed the stated 'maximum win' -


        Have you ever seen winnings  "exceed the stated 'maximum win'"?  I mean, gambler have played billions of spins already and I have never ever seen a single win that was even close to "maximum win" and I'm checking like every place where people share their winnings screenshot.  well, jackpot wins don't count to max single win that they announce, I guess.
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        wscalley wrote:

        Looking forward to reading the editorial lipstick - I know for sure that RTG casinos have the capability to alter the tRTP of their video slots, but Microgaming and NetEnt have stated publicly that the tRTP of their games is 'set in stone' at the design stage and cannot be modified by any of the casinos offering that particular game. In the case of RTG, the reel strips are altered to provide the difference in tRTP and if this was being done elsewhere I'm sure somebody would have noticed it by now.

        With regards your point Sommi, the 'win up to xx,xxx coins' refers to the maximum possible win from a single spin - an individual bonus round can easily surpass this, if one of those free spins was the jackpot combination then it is inevitable that the final total will exceed the stated 'maximum win' - most RTG games have a built in cap for this very reason whereby any feature that exceeds the maximum stated win will immediately finish regardless of how many spins you may have remaining - I've heard of people playing Vulcan or other simillarly ultra high variance games that offer many free spins with a huge multiplier being kicked out of the feature with a whole load of spins left to run at a totally sick multiplier.. thats gotta be frustrating!!


        I had that happen to me on Rain Dance Slot. I triggered the 100 Free Spins and it re-triggered many times after that. I had over 1,000 Free Spins. Once i reached $2,500 i received a message across the screen saying i had reached the maximum win and all free spins remaining were removed.........sigh.
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        Hi all,
        I can state unequivocally, that the slots we provide are indeed random. Bear in mind, there is a value of random, meaning obviously, you have to consider odds as well (example, you're far more likely to hit say, 3 OAK on any given spin than a full page of wilds).
        Each spin however IS independent of the last. The slot does not take into acct the last spin, win, payout etc, and each new spin is random irrespective of the last.

        Additionally, we have not only no control of the rng, but the rtp as well, as games are set by the provider, not the individual casino. For example, whether you play Microgaming slots with us or a competitor, you've the same odds regardless of which casino you choose to play at. What differentiates one casino from another, is service, promotions, timely payouts, etc. Whether you win or lose at one, one provides no more chance of winning than another, on the face of simply spinning. Basically, we have zero control on the randomness and have no influence on whether you hit large, small, nor unfortunately, as often as we'd all like...that all comes down to whether Lady Luck smiles down on you at any given moment.
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        keza

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        In saying all this, i remember when i played the slot "lets go fishing" a microgaming slot where the spin hadn't stopped but yet the win on that spin had already been put towards my balance, i did think it was a bit odd and kept watching it for a while, so as i played i saw how my balance changed and in my quick calculations it added up to what the amount would be if i were to get 3 scatters to trigger the freespins and sure enough i got the free spins...so i wouldn't know if you'd call it random or not.
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        BETAT

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        keza wrote:

        In saying all this, i remember when i played the slot "lets go fishing" a microgaming slot where the spin hadn't stopped but yet the win on that spin had already been put towards my balance, i did think it was a bit odd and kept watching it for a while, so as i played i saw how my balance changed and in my quick calculations it added up to what the amount would be if i were to get 3 scatters to trigger the freespins and sure enough i got the free spins...so i wouldn't know if you'd call it random or not.


        A win (or loss) is determined from the point of hitting spin. When you hit spin, a result is drawn from a pool of all possible outcomes and sent from the casino to you. At times, there is a gap as that information is relayed. What you see is one element of the mechanics reacting faster than another, nothing more, nothing less - ie the addition to your balance before the visual representation on your slot screen (the eye-candy as it were).

        This does not make the game any less random. It simply means the total was reflected in your balance before the accompanying visual result.

        readon for edit: 2 word change
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        marcus2281

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        "Here in the UK I know for certain that many players believe online slots work in a similar way to the fruit machines we have all played in our earlier years"

        People who believe that are wrong.... Here's why....

        A fruit machine is a standalone device. It is there to always make profit, it remember's wins, how much it's paid out and of course the payout % it is supposed to be paying at.

        Fruit machines are compensated machines. Effectively it means you can "turn down" possible wins (By carrying on with the game board until it's game over), then the next game board you get you will be given higher possible amounts to win as the machine tries to get back to the payout % it is set at.

        A 70% payout fruit machine knows 2 things... The payout % of the machine and how much of the payout % it's currently paid out at. If someone has just won the jackpot, there's basically no chance of it paying out again.


        Online gambing (Or any form of gambling that uses an RNG) is totally different and while I don't know the in's and out's... I do believe a few things.

        These are nothing like pub fruit machines as players can't "turn down" wins or try to force the jackpot... The RNG decides....

        Slot's are designed to profit the casino of course but also give the player a chance at some nice wins. Thorough checks are done when a new online slot is made to check this can happen by running the slot through millions, if not billions of spins and noting the average payout % after all spins.

        If the average payout was say 94%... That effectively means for every £1000 of spins made by all players, the casino have £60 profit. Although as it uses an RNG, sometimes it can be slightly more, other times slightly less.

        For us players and how the RNG works, I see it as 1 big pot. Imagine a pot was created with 100 bits of paper placed in them. 60 had "lose" written on them. 30 had "small win". 9 had "big win" and the last bit of paper had "jackpot". When someone picks a piece of paper from the pot they will more than likely pick "lose" but also have a chance to be lucky and possibly pick "jackpot".

        Of course an RNG wouldn't just have 100 "bits of paper" to pick from..... it generates millions of results per second.

        1 thing most players realise is free spins or a bonus round where you pick an item are not "random" when you get to that feature..... The result is already decided and effectively you just see a video playing which shows the outcome. People may kick themselves thinking they wished they had picked the other coin/box/symbol, but actually it doesn't matter what 1 they picked... The result would always be the same.

        "100% random" is a term that implies anything can happen. Flipping a coin and doing heads or tails is what I would call random.

        The fact that slots use an RNG is a good thing really.....

        The RNG carries a finite list of results. Slot testing then confirms the way it is programmed allows the casino to make money but also allows the player to have a fair bit of entertainment with a good chance of winning.

        If there was no RNG then the results would have infinite possibilities. This is bad for both the casino and the player.... There could be times when the slots randomness pays excessive amounts (Meaning it could even reach an average payout of 1000%... Too much for a casino to be hit with). Or it could have times where it seriously screw's ALL of the players and reduce the overall average payout % to under 5%.

        The fact that the RNG keeps the average payout % at between 92% and 97% so consistently means the casino can make money and the player always has a chance to win.
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        keza

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        Very informative information guys its very useful and helpful.
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        jennifer.durling1

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        This is the first time that I have played free spins at a casino and wasn't able to turn that money around and play other games with it without depositing.
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        udacia

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        Marcus, what do you think of Rival slots randomness?
        Have you ever read somewhere if they are certified as truely random?
        Maybe are simple impressions but if i spin without autoplay and without the "fast spin" option i see better results.
        I'm testing the same slot in different Rival casinos to see what happen and i think that in some way it is possible to study a good strategy to win in the middle-long term (without bonus too).
        Some slots have really special free spins and bonus features that come quite regularly with big payout, surely enough to complete a lot of bonus even if i prefer to play without them.
        I cannot see the same opportunities with netent and rtg (mg i cannot say anything because the most of casinos are banned to italian players).
        I have seen some netent Dead Or Alive statistics (millions of spins) and it's not possible to do anything to beat them regularly in the middle-long term.
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        marcus2281

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        Udacia:

        Thats because you have been lucky with the "fast spin" option so have thought that you are seeing better results. Your luck could easily change. There are no strategy's at all... Spin fast, slow, turbo spin, auto spin.... The RNG picks a result the second spin is hit. Any winning streaks from a certain method is purely an illusion, no method works better than others.

        Rival casino's were once legit... Now though, the majority have gone down the pan and are rogue. Unless the software itself is rogue, it will work exactly the same way as slot's on other platforms with the RNG.

        The free spin type is irrelevant as the spins are purely eye candy... stacked wilds, no stacked wilds, 3x wins, expanding wilds, sticky wilds.... Doesn't matter.... The result of how much you win is decided before the free spins start.

        I havent played rival for years so I havent seen if they say they are "truly random", however anything RNG based will have some randomness to it.

        "Truly random" is never meant in the way that anything can happen. It's meant that the RNG results are truly random.

        Somehow the RNG manages to work with the slot to keep the payout % at a fair amount.
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        drtheolen

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        On top of all that has been said here, and I have to agree with almost all of it, there is one more thing that should be mentioned when it comes to term "randomness".

        There are basically 2 types of RNG, pseudo RNG which is a computer generated RNG and true RNG. Pseudo RNG would be the RNG we are talking about here, it uses a certain mathematical algorithms to create sequences of numbers that look like they are randomly generated. True RNG uses some physical phenomenon such as radioactivity or atmospheric noises to generate randomness.

        There are a lot of claims by many gamblers online how they figured out certain patterns in the RNG and how they can utilize it to their advantage, but such a thing is highly unlikely. While pseudo RNG certainly is periodic (which means that sequences of numbers will eventually repeat themselves at some point), it would require tens of thousands of spins (or even much much more like millions of spins) on a same slot for example for a RNG to seem periodic. So its safe to say that level of randomness offered by online casinos is more than enough for the purpose it needs to fulfill.

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