What EXACTLY is a payout, why do casinos mention 97%

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Last post made 13 years ago by jakoman
freddyvtown
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  • Hey Man  cool.

    I have seen lots of players being frustrated with 'payout percentages'.  This tactic is used by casinos to lure a player in.  But its not like they are lying.  Most casinos DO get some sort of 'audit'.  You need to understand how they use this figure.

    So why can't I cash-out, when the casino boasts 97.3% on slots and 98.1% on table games???!!!

    The answer is simple.  A payout is ANY return on a given spin, turn, roll, etc.  So let's say you spin $1.25 on a single slot spin.  The 97% doesn't mean you are going to get 97% of it back, nor does it mean you will get 97% of your bankroll. 

    What this means is that 97% of the time, the slots WILL payback 97%....This means that even if you only win $.25 off of that spin, you still are getting a "payout". 

    Same with table games, a payout is considered to be any return from a bet, no matter what the size of the return is...

    So when you see, 97% just means that you will get some sort of "payout" whether its $.05 or $25.  This means that 97% of the time, you will get something, not 97% of what you put into the machine or on the table.




  • What/which casino (Online) has ever claimed 97%???

    I (If I recall correctly) remember from the Casino 33 discussion, that the highest can be set was 85% payback.

    So who made that claim???

  • Hey Man  cool.

    I used 97% as a general figure.  I didn't specify which casino made the claim, because there was none.  It was intended as an example, however, I know that there are land-based casinos that advertise this figure. 


  • Hey Man  cool.

    I used 97% as a general figure.  I didn't specify which casino made the claim, because there was none.  It was intended as an example, however, I know that there are land-based casinos that advertise this figure. 



    OK, Man I was DANG curious which online made that claim. I'd be there grin

    But regarding land based ones, yep have seen that and even some of the carousels which were advertising 99.5%-101% payback. But they are quite rare.

    Still, that's why I am taking a bit of a vacation from onlines. I get a 90% odds from the bars in Oregon and about a 94% at some of the indian casinos 90 min away.

    Now in conclusion (This is open to anyone who can tell me) Why can land based casinos offer 97+% paybacks and not onlines?

    Onlines have fewer employees
    (I don't know about tax structure)
    less maint cost.
  • Basically, you give a casino a dollar and they give you back 97 cents (at least that what they advertise).

    Actually, seeing the slots online, generally average between high sixties .65+ to the mid seventies .74 .75, .76

    Moreover, the casino's edge has to be large enough to pay off staff, utilities, comp meals/rooms, etc and a hefty profit for the owner/stockholders wink

  • Hey Man  cool.

    Sorry, your explanation of a payout is not correct.  A payout percentage is ANY return on a bet.  So if you bet a dollar, and the payout is 90% it doesn't mean you get 90% back.  It means that 90% of the time it will "payout"  A payout can be $0.01 even if you spin $5.00 per spin, you are still getting a "payout"  It has no reflection on a percentage "back". 

    A payout can be $.50 or it can be $500....its all the same. a payout is a payout

  • lol i was thinking... if you get 97 cents on every dollar back that being 97% if you have spent 100 dollars that would be minus 30.00 making it .. 70%

    (being minus 3 cents on the dollar)

  • after several extremely poor sessions with casino titan  they sent me my play by play stats and i discussed them in detail with their support people....they stated that their 'PAYBACK percentage"  was in the mid ninties (96 i think)  The statement made by josephhkennedy above is how the percentage is figured ...based on how many cents you can expect back on each dollar wagered.  so you start with a dollar betting one penny a spin..then have 96 cents after a hundred spins and so on until you bust.  This statistic can help you to figure out how long you should be able to play and once it goes below 80....do the math...it is serious reverse ATM action.  freddy..how did you figure your formula?  maybe we should ask a REP to give us the details


  • after several extremely poor sessions with casino titan  they sent me my play by play stats and i discussed them in detail with their support people....they stated that their 'PAYBACK percentage"  was in the mid ninties (96 i think)  The statement made by josephhkennedy above is how the percentage is figured ...based on how many cents you can expect back on each dollar wagered.  so you start with a dollar betting one penny a spin..then have 96 cents after a hundred spins and so on until you bust.  This statistic can help you to figure out how long you should be able to play and once it goes below 80....do the math...it is serious reverse ATM action.  freddy..how did you figure your formula?  maybe we should ask a REP to give us the details


    What did your play by play show as a "Payout total Percentage"?
  • Just for all wondering, I actually know the answer to this question!!!  The casinos claim 97% payback but if you read the fine print it is a RIP OFF.....For example, those who have been to Las Vegas have seen the row of 50 slots that say GUARANTEED 98% PAYBACK...Well, I fell for this and I did a little research seeing how I lost quicker then I did playing regular slots...The thing is they are guaranteeing 98% on usually ONE OR TWO slot machines out of the entire 50 plus....It is false advertising, so I take it that yea one or two slots out of the entire selection may be 98% but beware THIS DOES NOT MEAN ALL SLOTS...

  • If someone wants to do the research.. I believe a lot of the payout %'s are based on what is required in the gaming jurisdiction the casino is located in.. ie I think in order to be licensed in Nevada, you have to pay out around 89% of what you take in on slots.  The machines all have to be set up that way, though im not sure whether it is based on all of the machines combined or each machine.



  • after several extremely poor sessions with casino titan  they sent me my play by play stats and i discussed them in detail with their support people....they stated that their 'PAYBACK percentage"  was in the mid ninties (96 i think)  The statement made by josephhkennedy above is how the percentage is figured ...based on how many cents you can expect back on each dollar wagered.  so you start with a dollar betting one penny a spin..then have 96 cents after a hundred spins and so on until you bust.  This statistic can help you to figure out how long you should be able to play and once it goes below 80....do the math...it is serious reverse ATM action.  freddy..how did you figure your formula?  maybe we should ask a REP to give us the details


    What did your play by play show as a "Payout total Percentage"?
  • according to their records over many deposits it was 77 or 76 %.  the playthrough i experienced over the course of this ordeal was horrid.  Their support was great though...so i have been back several times since...only to experience the same short, short playthrough times and never winning.

  • prior to reading any of this thread, i was confident i knew what this percentage meant.....but..it seems there are many explanations of this magic number.  I am not so sure who is correct at this time.

  • 3dice will give you a % of their weekly slots(and two days previous), or your daily/monthly or even each slot you just played. Very transparent. I normally work out about 120% on the month if im under 100% i can ask for a free chip anytime no wr. so its quite good.

  • % just means that after a theoretical 100 spins at a theoretical £1 you will get back £97 (for 97%)
    You pay for the privilage of using the software,or you pay to play its the same as the house edge in land based casinos

  • How about if anyone ever plays a machine or how many times this has happened.. you play a 20, not hitting nothing.. get down to about a dollar or two and hit something close to the 20 you played.. okay now you are at least close to getting your money back, syked by this you keep playing, thinking you will get another and go above, stuck in that cycle of getting above that 20.. what percentage of winning is that?

  • Those machines that advertise 98% payouts, do payout. However, no one knows when or what machine. They don't neccessarily payout that % to one person either, as long as they payout 98% of what was put in that day they are all good.

    Now, I wouldn't play those machines. It's misleading. People think if they put $100 in the machine they will get $98 back..when that is clearly not the case.



    :-*

  • Hey Man  cool.

    You've hit it on the head.  You will never get what the machine says, its all relative to the number of spins played.  Also, remember, a payout is any return on a bet.  It doesn't matter the size of the bet, any type of return is considered a payout.  So a machine CAN payout 97% of the time, and you could be losing a lot of money, but anytime you get credits back, its considered a payout.

  • LOL this thread is making my head hurt.....freddy  i just googled it...and it really cleared it up for me.  according to your theory, on a dollar mandatory bet machine, it could pay back five cents on every spin and advertise 100% payback.  (this would be frequency..not payback... payback is the amount per dollar over the long term) Also, check the reviews or ask,  all casinos will proudly tell you their payback percentages and who they were verified by.  all are in the ninties. 

  • My % on lucky nuggets yeasterday was less than 20% thats for sure dident get anything at all every spins was 0 cashback almost, thats 1 casino i would never deposit at even if i got almost $10 from the freespins when signed up, but it looks like a permanent problem for me at MG now after my withdraws i never get above my deposit which i why i started play RTG.

  • very good point  freddy!

    i found this out the hard way:)

    its really deluding, if you viisit a lot of gambling forums, and see indeed figures thrown around like 97% etc.  btw, for genenco: almost all rtg, including for instance inetbet (which is the only one i deposit at) puts  all their slots around 94 to 96%, this is advertised!

    if you dont know that freddys point is in fact the truth of the matter, you can easily be fooled, and be dissapointed afterwards.

    lets face it: slots make you lose, they are money making machines, and not on your end, but on the casinos end.

    you CAN win, but its not a common feat, you have to be lucky.

    so just keep that in mind on your next streak of deposits ^^

    good luck!

  • i think someone from a casino needs to answer this.....can we get an expert to clear this up for us??  we have established three or four answers but where are we all getting our information from??  are online and landbased casinos definitions different??  i found alot of information on google search that disagreed with the above...but it is possible that all of the articles are opinion based and all of the information i found was wrong?? PLease.....casino expert.....help us  :?)

  • Hey Man  cool.

    I like Casino Titan, they are reputable.  And what they say is true...you can have a 97% PAYBACK or whatever number they used.

    You need to understand what a PAYBACK is.  Its money (credits) returned to you after a spin.  It can be $0.05 or $500, to the machine, its one in the same. 

    As far as getting a casino rep, I don't know of any that would cooperate any more with you than Casino Titan.  They probably do have the payout % as they advertise.  I know that dirkemans 'Dirk' here at this forum has great experience with regards to casino reps.  I am not sure how I learned that, I am sure, though.

    If I were you, I would look further into what constitutes a payback, instead of getting caught up in the percentages.  The percentages is used because its relatively close to being 100%, and reflects a "loose slots" effect. 

    I have read books on gambling, Texas Hold'em and slots, dice, etc. and I learned what a payback is anything that is returned after a bet, regardless of its quantity.  You have 97% and still lose your money. shocked

  • I know a good website that breaks everything down,  I will check real quick to make sure it is ok to post it.

  • freddy...can you do me a favor.....go online and research what it is you are talking about.......you are talking about FREQUENCY...or something huh  ....you are saying that if i spin 100 times....i am going to win something 97 times....97 out of 100 spins i win....come on now  think about your theory... ..please ask jeeves or somebody.....you and the dirkman are way off on this one

  • this is realy simple math guys. for every hundred dollars bet the casino pays out 97 dollars running on a profit of 3% how ever, that does not mean it is going to be every exact 100 and not necessarily yours. I could bet 100 and lips bet 100 and mommy bet 100 and wannhee bet 100 and three of us lose everything and lips wins 389 dollars! hey, come to think of it that is normally how it works lips always wins (lol) anyways GOT IT?

  • dabigdog youre way off i'd say use your imagination, and combine mamrones input, and freddys, and mine, and youll have  a pretty good picture of what the percentage represents.

    i pointed out that it indeed NOT means that you get 97% back on every 100 $ you put in, please feel free to deposit several 1000's yourself and then cvome back and add your 2 cents.

    im warning you, thats all.

    dont be fooled by these percentages, i can assure you that even on  amillion spins, you personally make, you will not be garantueed a 97% return.
    freddys original post may not be the 100 procent correct explanation, but its closer to the truth then the payout percentage pages that casinos advertise with are.

    but believe what you want lips_sealed

  • uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......uhhhhhhhhhhh...ok i give up  you and freddy are absolutely correct....thanks for the warning     

  • Any win is a win, payout % and payback %'s are different, when real %'s matter is what you walk away with and put in your pocket, other then that you are always playing with 0.00% payout until you hit that cashout.

  • I got the ok for that website, it breaks down everything

    xxx http://wizardofodds.com/slots/slotapx2.html

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