Highly Controversial Topic... Relgion....

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    gabby

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        gabby

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        Mods:  If you feel this will generate too much controversy, feel free to delete.

        My family (parents/siblings) are faithful.  My husbands family is very religious. My kids go to religion classes and daughter went all the way through confirmation. (Yes, Catholic). 

        I'm really on the fence about things and am not asking for direction.  Just opinions. 

        Some people (okay, many) treat the bible like a smorgasboard, where you can pick and choose what you want to follow/believe.  I would think the Bible is a 'take it all' or 'leave it all' book.

        There are many who feel hoIf a man sins, his children are to be put to death
        Isaiah 14:21 - Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.

        If your child disobeys, he must be stoned to death
        Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

        A child who curses his mother or father must be put to death
        Exodus 21:17 - And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death

        Anyone who doesn't listen to a priest is to be put to death
        Deuteronomy 17:12 - Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.

        If your brother, son, daughter, wife or friend encourages you to worship a different god, you must kill them mosexuality is wrong because the Bilbe says so. Drives me nuts!  Why?  I'm sure not one of those folks live by the following parts of the Bible.

        If a man rapes a married woman, both of them are to be killed.
        Deuteronomy 22:22 - If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.


        Women who have sex before marriage are to be burned to death
        Leviticus 21:9 - A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.



        So... if anyone has any logical replies for me, I would appreciate it.  I am sitting on the fence, per se, and just go...hmmmmmmm

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        chillymellow

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        Laws of the Old Testament, for Christians, became obsolete with the coming of Christ.  That's what makes it "the Good News".  Okay, that's pretty simplistic.

        Think of God as a parent, and humans as a species as babies growing into adults.  As a parent teaching young children, you have to be strick and "mean" for their own good, so they won't get hurt by things they don't understand like Fire Is HOT.  Early humans got heavier discipline and rules.  As your children grew, you had to keep them from running out into the street or eating poison, so you punished or yelled in order to make them aware of the dangers, and not want to get near them.  So God also had strict rules and harsh punishment.  It was for the good of the humans.

        When Christ came, and died for our sins, he took all that burden of punishment on himself.  He asked for little in return except to believe that he did that.

        As humans matured and developed and changed, so did the rules.  We wouldn't really put up with stoning and burning and killing, or having to make animal sacrifices, or other Old Testament practices.  Christians follow the rules of Christ, with knowledge of the rules of the Old Testaments, and make choices in their behavior based on their beliefs and abilities to make good or bad choices. 

        Well, that's really brief, but I hope it is clear enough to see what I mean.  Sitting on the fence is fine and I hope that this provides a new train of thought to explore.
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        drpsyce38

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        I consider myself a practicing Christian, but I don't understand the Bible like the Fundamentists do....like the Southern Baptists or conservative independent churches.

        I think the Bible is a sacred book which tells us A LOT about God, ourselves and our human condition.  Gabby, what you describe is called "proof-texting."  This is where (usually an unlearned Christian with an agenda) simply abstracts bits and pieces out of the Bible to prove a particular point. 

        There are lots of things to consider when reading the Bible....such as context, history, backgrounds, types of Biblical liturature, etc.
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        gabby wrote:

        Mods:  If you feel this will generate too much controversy, feel free to delete.



        Gabby, i absolutely love the topic and i for one love good old fashion debates! It is my aphrodisiac. You could not have chosen a more controversial topic unless it was politics. I just want to warn everyone that we must respect everyones views and not belittle along the way. And realize it is ok to agree to disagree!

        Now down to the topic at hand........whoa!

        First of all the bible has been written and rewritten throughout history for the purpose of translation as well as the ever changing evolution of mankind. And in many ways that is shame.

        I picture a group of men sitting at a round table saying "take this out, take that out" to behoove their needs. And what are those needs? The almighty dollar and control.

        For example the original scriptures state that God said we can worship Him anywhere. If that is the case then why is it almost mandatory in today's society to go to church to do it? Again............MONEY!

        We are a self driven society of money and power throughout history.

        The God you describe in your post Gabby, is not a loving God. This is a fearing God. I don't view God as someone to fear or to stone to death humans for their wrong doings or things that make absolutely no sense. Kill a woman who has been raped? This is man's interpretation.

        I do believe in a higher power. I do not label myself any religion. To me that put's too many God fearing restraints on what my heart and soul tell me. Then i end up asking myself the very questions you are asking now.

        Lips
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        lagunagirl

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        Thanks for this post from:

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        I do believe in a higher power. I do not label myself any religion. To me that put's too many God fearing restraints on what my heart and soul tell me. Then i end up asking myself the very questions you are asking now.


        Thanks, I could not say it any better.
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        Joseph Kennedy

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        People expect one another to tell them the truth.  When a lie is uncovered, there is fallout and a disruption to business/household/organization.  Every time you tell the truth, metaphorically speaking you're drawing closer to God and as the Bible scripture goes "...He draws closer to you."  Every lie, deception, or broken promise, the opposite goes and more disruptions/calamity occur.  

        and if you get into a constantly habit of telling the truth, I believe at one point God would want a relationship, provided you continue to tell the truth.
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        drpsyce38

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        Hi Lipps.....I liked your comments, but I have to disagree that the translation of the Bible was all about money.  (And yes, yes, yes....plenty of people use the Bible, religion, including Christianity, to make a buck.)  And plenty of churches are VERY anti-money and really into serving people.  Sadly, though, there are plenty of exceptions.  Sounds like you know a few!
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        And of course, there are those of us who believe the bible is a book of parables written by a man for a time when society, feeling its decadence, required a set of morals with an instilled fear factor placed into it, should you not comply
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        gabby

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        Wow guys! 

        Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post and you have all given me a lot to think about.

        I love hearing others perspectives on different issues and each post was eloquent and well put.

        Thanks too, for not bashing me   and being diplomatic in your replies.
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        ricorizzo

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        Are we all aware, that 25-30 years ago, Catholasisam, ( the Catholic church) was the #1 money makeing non-profit group, in our U.S. of A.
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        chillymellow

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        uh, no, not all of us were aware.  My dad used to want me to read something called "The other side of Rome".  I never did, but I did make my own conclusions about the Catholic Church.  Being that it wasn't for me. 

        I am glad gabby came back to post I thought maybe this thread was put up like throwing a grenade and running away!
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        drpsyce38

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        I realize that organized religion gets a bad rap.....often fully deserving!  But, the numbers of hospitals, colleges and relief efforts begun by "church folks" is considerable.

        Ask people still suffering from Huricanne Katrina what they think of FEMA, and most will be quite negative in their response.  But, ask them what they think of Baptists, Methodists and Catholics and they will express gratitude for these church goers' love and caring.

        So, to paint all people of faith negatively with a broad brush isn't quite accurate or fair.
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        genenco

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        "Today, most of the good people are afraid to be good. They strive to be broadminded and tolerant. It is fashionable to be tolerant but mostly tolerant of evil and this new code has reached the proportions of demanding intolerance of good."
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        Well Gabby, I agree with Chilly as to the laws were voided when Christ came. But the part you posted didn't include certian things. I have posted the entire passage of the law regarding rape below.


        Deuteronomy 22:23 "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her,
        Deuteronomy 22:24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.
        Deuteronomy 22:25 "But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.
        Deuteronomy 22:26 But to the young woman you shall do nothing; in the young woman there is no offense punishable by death, for this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor;
        Deuteronomy 22:27 because he came upon her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.
        Deuteronomy 22:26 But to the young woman you shall do nothing; in the young woman there is no offense punishable by death, for this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor;
        Deuteronomy 22:27 because he came upon her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.
        Deuteronomy 22:28 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,
        Deuteronomy 22:29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not put her away all his days.
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        genenco

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        "Today, most of the good people are afraid to be good. They strive to be broadminded and tolerant. It is fashionable to be tolerant but mostly tolerant of evil and this new code has reached the proportions of demanding intolerance of good."
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        BTW folks, that last part of marrying the rapist I don't personally agree with. The female was traumatized enough and then she has to marry the scum? I don't agree with that part at all....Thankfully those laws are history.
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        chillymellow

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        Re: the Catholic Church.  Their charities have helped me out several times, and I have a great respect for what they do for the community.  Here in Castroville they host the biggest festival each year that generates a lot of money and a lot of good clean fun! 

        I'm not quite understanding who painted all people of faith negatively with a broad brush.  Maybe I missed something.

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