New information: Gamblling and the human brain. Your thougths?

As a (former) psychologist I do a lot of reading and research on the psychology and brain function associated with gambling.

Here is some interesting, recent, research: 

Near misses produce almost the same "positive brain rush" as wins.  We all know our brains go "yeah-yeah-ga-ga" when we win.  BUT, they produce a similar response when we have a near miss.  For example, if you are playing 3 wheel slots and you spin and land on 1.  Bonus bananna  2.  Bonus bananna, 3.  You miss the third bonus bananna by ONE spot!  You are disappointed, BUT your brain still "pumps" out a positive reaction. 

Now the bad news of this:  This is one explanation why we play-TOO-much when we know we should stop.  Near misses keep us going.  It also explains why we foolishly blow through an accumulated win-pot.  If near misses still feel good to the brain, we keep playing!

Now.......tell me.  Has this been your experience.  I would love to test this recent research theory with experienced gamblers!

yep yep...I think you are right on the money

Yeah, brains are a little stupid...

Even worse, the other day I read that your brain does all the the decision taking by itself and your conscience is only left to reason out the decision to yourself.

Did I get this right, psychologically?

I am a little surprised that this is "recent" research discovered. Being a addictions counselor and dealing with many gambling addictions this was a very common thing discussed in group and one on one in therapy.

The slot industry was well aware of this long ago. The slot machine is tailored to tease and taunt the player making them hungry for more and make another deposit or slip another $20 in the machine feeling certain it's going to "pop" soon. The machine is set to make the endorphins in your brain go gaga!!

There is so many triggers that cause players to keep coming back for more. Chasing the losses hoping to rebound, the thrill of winning, the thrill of coming close to win and escapism just to name a few.

Women as a whole have a much higher level of getting caught up in these triggers than men do. In more cases than not these woman who did become addicted were escaping from something in there lives. Whether it was loneliness or bad marriages or replacing one addiction with another. Gambling takes you away from the harsh reality in life and seems to be the cure all for what ever is happening that is unpleasant or missing in their lives. Sadly enough this makes for prime targets of addiction. 

Out of all the addictions.......gambling is the toughest one to conquer. It is harder than kicking the drug habit or the alcohol. One of the theories for this is because out of these 3 addictions gambling is more socially acceptable. It also is the most destructive as a whole and can be the easy to hide in the short term. Gambling addiction not only destroys you it destroys families and leaves them in financial ruins because of the amount of money that can be blown.

Out of all the addictions, the gambler has the highest rate of suicide than any other addictions. So while it may give a player a temporary high.....the crash can be worse than the aftermath of a coke binge.

Lips

Well said Lips, you were spot on in my book.

Dr. I agree that the machines do that on purpose, there have been many times, that I would have a near miss, and put more money in because I was sure it was going to hit it.

Kinda like getting 4 to a Royal Flush in VP. Most people believe if it's handing out the 4 so easily, the 5th one is soon to come, thus they keep on playing.

The thrill of almost winning is something I think our brain uses to tell us that we will win if we keep on playing.

I became a little obsessed with gambling when I first started, an addiction maybe. I would play allll day and alll night, but I soon seen what this was doing to me, and now I deposit maybe $20 a month.

Living in Vegas most of my life Lips, I seen first hand what a gambling addiction could do. My Aunt lost everything, and her husband got so in debt that he took his own life. Gambling addiction is serious.


:-*

My personal experience with gambling, yes very true theres a higher temptation because it is acceptable to society, and you will gamble to ease the troubles mentally wrecking havoc and even the physical pains you are sufferring, it will take you away from those things in the duration of gambling also it is not a chemical you are putting into your body. You're having fun, you beleive you are in your right mind, no thoughts other then that machine in front of you, you can tend to think you have the chance of relieving all the fails and ails of what is going on in your life if you can just hit that big one, which you can beleive you can accomplish with just 20 bucks, and what's 20 bucks now a days?  I think even day dreaming can be an addition. It goes alot deeper for those who do it and theres many more aspects, but with it we do not think about the devastation that 20 bucks can lead us to, one more 20 will do it, this win will be the answer to all the worries and problems in my life, gee it keeps giving me 4 to the royal or lining up 2 of the million dollar hit, i can't leave it now, i warmed it up

Theres much more and this is in short. I went gambling to get away from her father, the money problems (how ironic) the unhappiness and depression of things going on within myself, the nearest casino was a walk away, as soon as i would walk in the door, i'd take that big deep breath of relaxation, and damn near run to the machine i wanted, sit down and let out that breath and say.. i'm home.

Another example was i had a terrible toothache, this was in the evening, not being able to visit a dentist til morning, nothing i did was relieving it, i think i took like 14 advils, tried every form of topical anesthetic or natural remedy, hot water, cold water... Well i finally walked out the door and headed towards the casino, still in horrible pain i sat down at a machine. Within the hour the pain subsided, at home i was going through hell with the pain, i come here i find out all it took was mind of matter, but nothing esle would do.. relieved. As soon as i walked out and towards home, it was coming back. So i'm saying thats how strong the pain reliever "gambling" can be. Whether physical pain or mental.

In short..Yes, it got bad, i lost every single thing i possessed, to the utmost in embarressment, living in cheap weeklys, i did quit and i did get on my feet.. my luck was my daughter. It is now something i can control, something i had a good hard lesson with, i can take it or leave it.

Drugs, thats been my monster, the worst nightmare, i'm clean but if i ever were to just let a tiny taste in.. i'll have no control and i'll let that monster eat me alive over and over again. The chemical substance that envades my body will control every fiber, then the brain along with the body reacts with it's dependency on that rush just wanting more and more. You can't tell your brain and your body no more, it's a fight you have to give in to, no matter what it takes to feed it, you're gonna do it.. majority rules. (this is my personal experience, not a perception and i do feel that the only way another is to understand it is one that has been there)

Gambling and alcohol i can be around and have control, infact enjoy the brain rush and i can walk away, drugs.. thats a no, i have to stay away from.

Lips....you are so right!  (As USUAL!)  The casinos have known about the "near miss high" long before psychology got a handle on it.  So, when your slot machine hits 2 cherries and bananna with a cherry miss by one.....well.

This comment i heard over and over when i was a counselor. Many would  say to me "are  you an addict yourself"? When i would say no i was not the door would shut in some cases, feeling that there was no way i could relate to them. That and the fact that of my youth at the time. I got my degree when i was 21 years old......"what could i possibly know". I learned very early on not to disclose whether i was an addict or not because it worked against me.

It was these comments that i have to admit i felt some what defeated in some cases and would have to turn the patient over to another counselor who was a reformed addict.

I went into the field not because of any personal reasons....but because i wanted to reach out and help people. I only hope that when someone does seek help and does speak to a counselor that they understand there are some of us who don't have to walk in your shoes to be compassionate understand what your going through.

After all we dedicated our lives to getting an education to help people.

Lips 

Ahhhh...the blessing of the "wounded healer."

Imagin....your words are very good.  I would have to differ with you on one matter.  Gambling DOES inject your body with a chemical.  Gambling hooks the brain on certain chemical reactions/responses that gambling supplies.

For example, when you put $20 in a slot machine and win, say $30...then, you put that $30 back in and loose it all, your brain is certainly undergoing an "injection" of chemical process.  When you loose your last dollar gambling, it likely because you have been chasing a chemical "bath" that you felt when you won the $30, but alas, the rush didn't arrive, so you spend the next day "hung over" with regret, guilt, shame and remorse.

I understand that Doc, what i mean is the action of putting a known chemical in your system, knowingly doing it, knowing it can cause harm to yourself, people will beleive that it isn't addicting, they are not adding a substance.. vs the own bodies chemical reactions. Some people really steer away from actual chemical drugs because they do know the harm, so for an addict gambling is the perfect drug.. you know what i mean?

Doc.........your not suppose to tell that!!!

You got it!  Gambling does a real number on the brain.  I have shared this here before:  When I go to a casino, I take my first 3 or 4 hours of winnings and lock in a box that has the key at HOME.  Why?  Because the gambling will start influencing my brain in a way where I don't have "normal" control.  This is to prevent what is commonly called "Holy crap!  I can't believe I blew my wad!" 

Math and brain chemistry makes winning at gambling very hard.  I really think its a matter of 1.  getting very, very lucky.  or 2.  Getting ahead and stopping.

Hold up, back to what rocco said.  How many times has anyone said I wont do it, or I don't know what I am going to do; when we know damn well exactly what we are going to do and are just trying to justify what we know we are going to do.

I know myself very well.  When I think I may be starting down the impulse road I usualy ask a friend or my girlfriend to make sure I don't go too far.  The only problem is I also know that if I am ahead (like if I am up $400-$500) I will automaticly raise my base bet untill I either win big or loose around 40% or my bankroll.  At least I know the secret of forcing myself to leave the local casino when I am up,  Order a large pizza.  I will be dammed if I am going to carry around a pizza for verry long in a cassino.

There is also the visual excitement which is addicting, the thrill of winning which that single one thrill will grab ahold of you and won't let go until you reach it again and then again.. no matter what it takes. You'll spend 1000's and 1000's til you hit that thrill, and soon no amount of win satisfies it. You can't get ahead.. you'll be right back in that cycle doing it over and over.

I remember many times sitting there saying, well if i hit this 1000.00 i'll be alright, i can pay my bills, fill the house with groceries, buy a few things, this is how it started out i'd do just that, now i'd hit that 1000.00 and find all i got is more money to gamble with, raise my bets.. now i can "really relax and play" all i wanted was to gamble more, get up to go find another machine to fill the thrill.. this is the least of this addiction that it can do.. rock bottom is far from this, some peoples rock bottom are softer then others..

This here that i am explaining is the simple top of mind state of what happens, what the brain can do to you for control is lead you out of control. What part of the brain does this?

When I get a win, the first thing I think of is what I could do with the money, and then something in my brain kicks in and tells me that if I just keep playing I will win more. One time I did keep playing and won lots more, but you know what I did when I won? I kept playing. I took a little home with me, but the majority of my win stayed right at the casino.

I will raise my bet once I get ahead, and that never works out for me, but as soon as I lower my bet and I hit something nice, I always think what it could have been had I kept my bet raised.


:-*

Hmmm.  yeah, gambling is a chemical rush, and addicts have a hard time.  Just today while pondering my choice of deposit at VR and withdraw that $45 I won on a free chip (which I've been debating with myself over for about 3 weeks already), noticing I had about 16 dollars over the w/d and sticky bonus, and since I wasn't already depositing so I must not care...
I started spinning on their new game.  I passed my 16 dollars, but kept going betting 1-2 bucks a spin and my head telling me "guess I'm not depositing-yeah!  keep spinning!" got down to about 10 bucks.

Then VR realized they were about to lose a sure deposit(hah hah...) or as luck would have it, bam!  bonus round!  Up over $100!!  Yeah!!!

And since I couldn't withdraw that much, yeah!  more spinning!.

Well I repeated that again, and I then stopped at .01 over the amount needed.  Now I can spend another 2 weeks debating myself over the withdraw and then/or start spinning again.  

So right now, I'm getting kinda high just sitting here talking about it and doing the mental "do I deposit" or "do I play" sub-program in my head, giggling over wondering how much time before I do one or the other.  

Is there a phenomena then of the addiction to the "cooling off between gambling sessions"  Like if you are at the casino, but back off and take a break, or enjoy the buffet or something...
While you are contemplating going back to gamble more vs. going on home to gamble another day, do you kinda enjoy that in the same way  you enjoy a hit or a near miss?

and...and....And.... sorry I'm giddy and rambling, but also wanted to mention isn't the gambling addiction mindgame the same also with things like religion, or fishing, or hunting, or gold digging or any other thing in the world we find to occupy our time?

anyone want to place bets on my VR withdraw or spin issue?  LOL

I've only been to a casino once - last year.
I had about $100 designated to be lost (haha) on gambling.
Put $20 in and when it went at least $10 over the $20 I'd cash out the ticket and pocket it, knowing I had profit in my pocket.
I'd put in another $20, and would play til I lost and put in another, or til it was high enough over $20 to put in that profit pocket.
In my mind, each $20 I used like that was as if it were the original $20, because in my pocket were tickets adding up to and above my original $100 I was going to spend having fun.
I made about $160 dollars, which was actually a $60 profit, but I told myself it was a $160 win because I planned to spend $100 on entertainment for the weekend anyway.  math and psychology and gambling...what a mix.

Doc, i have a question.. is there a drug that is given to addicted gamblers, like it is given to those addicted to drugs and alcohol?

one more thing I noticed about this today-with online bingo.  Some sites show you the color of three upcoming bingo balls so you know if you are getting a B, I, N, G or an O ball.  When you need only O71 and you see a yellow ball coming down...whew! You start yelling out 71! 71!...and you know other people do the same as you can see them chatting.
They highlight the cards when you have 3, 2, or 1 to go, and encourage you to post in chat 3TG!!!
And the chatting can get very addictive, just like here  : )
And then you play a site where you can't see the color of any of the upcoming balls and you start getting withdrawal feelings...where's the color?  darn!  I wish they had the colored balls dropping down!!
And the chat games to win BBs so you can play, and the free hours, and the contests and newsletter scratch cards and poetry and joke and birthday bonuses!!!
The bingo sites have got the psychology DOWN!!

Amen Chilly they definately know how to reel the players in just like the casinos.


:-*

I wonder that as well Imagin. Like heroin addicts get methadone, do gamblers get a drug to help them too?



There was a drug being advertised on television, and it's side effect was Excessive Gambling Imagine, you are taking a medication, for let's say Restless Leg Syndrome, I think it might have been, and next thing you know you are getting a loan from your bank to hit the tables?


:-*

Self control is derived out of emotional impulses. The part of the brain that controls emotions also ties in with self control. We all have self control in our lives. If we did not have self control we would be completely out of control in all aspects of our lives.

A good example of this would be when something scares us. The fear is an emotional impulse......to remain calm we tell ourselves we must remain in control of the situation or we would lose it on the spot. We use self control in day to day living in our behavioral habits. This is what makes humans civil  and adapt in society.

When our emotions are triggered by events in our lives such as trauma or depression this is when self control can be problem. Our self control can go haywire and what kicks in is the coping mechanism. That coping mechanism is to escape from the reality we don't want to deal with. We can become impulsive and make rash decisions because sometimes we think its just easier to cope.....so we think.

Emotions, impulses and self control all tie in together. This is why when a person does have an addiction it is very important to know what happened in their lives that triggered this addiction.

There is always the exception to the rule. Someone lives the "perfect" life, was brought up in the "perfect" family with no hard knocks at all and still becomes addicted. In a case like this it can only be blamed on the emotional structure of the person.

I hope i made some kind of sense. The brain and our behavior and why we react they way we do is sooooooooo complicated!

Lips

          “The sign of an intelligent people is their ability to control their emotions by the application of reason” 
                              - Marya Mannes-

Great quote Nan.


:-*

A gambling addict is like a crack addict, you continue to chase that high. You keep playing thinking, "it's got to hit eventually" and it sucks you right in.

I don't think gambling is a bad thing in moderation, but there are people that lack the self control needed to gamble. You need to be able to walk away, and most gamblers are not able to do so.

I also think gambling is more accepted than alot of other addictions, so in one light, most people that are addicts rarely even realize they are.

Just my 4.5 cents.


:-*

Thank you lips, that was excellent, in your studies have you found that there is a different form of dependency for all addictions.. such as gambling, alcohol and drugs or is it all tied to one type, and that it is the same "dependency" factor for everyone, i know each individual has their own reasons and problems and physcologically it will be different, im meaning the medical make up of our bodies..

For example gambling when i quit or at least gained control, i had no withdraws other then whenever something caused havoc or hurt me or things i couldn't handle i wanted to run and go gamble it was the first thing i thought of rather then facing the situation, to get it out of my mind.. if there was money in my hands there was nothing stopping me, even if it was for some bill or whatever.. the same reasons the gambling addiction started...physcologically dependent

With drugs i had withdraws, this isn't easy to explain other then i can say if you were a coffee drinker and go without your coffee you get that headache, this feels 10 times worse to some 100 times worse, when you begin to feel this you are terrified.. i ran back to the drugs for no other reason then to not feel that for relief, so i became physically dependent, but this was not how it started.. (im just stating this in short theres alot more to it)

The same brain mechanism that triggers both these effects?

A movie that really makes you not want to gamble anymore is Lucky You, with Drew Barrymore and Eric Bana.  I remember watching that, seeing him do some of the same stuff I did in the past, and feeling sick to my stomach. 

I went to casinos before I moved to the Pacific NW, and I didn't even know how to play the machines, and I was excited to win $25.  Like truly amazed that it happened.  I had no desire to go back, gambling addiction wasn't on the radar in any sense at all.  I remember being so excited to spend that $25 towards dinner in a nice restaurant lol.  Then I moved here, and I met a gambler.  Same thing the first night in the casino, I was a total newb and not addicted.  But then, we kept going back... then I was going without him.. then instead of working out at the gym I would sneak off to the casino.  I used to get paid once a month at this time, when it all started, and before being introduced to it, I could save my money all month and it wasn't an issue.  Oh boy was there a problem when I got hooked.  Everything changed.  I was 21 when I started and by the time I was 23 I was hooked and had a problem, and got counseling.  I actually went a year and a half of no gambling whatsoever, and helped my friend get into gamblers anon.  I joined online gambling groups just to keep myself in check.  Then I went nutso and messed up pretty bad again.  Then I got control.  I would say i'm in a downslope right now, but I am working on getting control again.  So I would definitely say it is a control issue, when I feel the most out of control I tend to do the most damage.  I have more control now than I ever have before, I was extremely proud of myself on the Vegas trip a couple months ago.  Control, control, control... good points there.

and yes, I too notice the excitement when you 'might' get that last symbol, so exciting. 

Imagin......the latest research tells us it is the neo cortex that effects gambling.  In fact, there is some cutting age treatment for gambling that actually surgically removes the neo cortex.  THOUGH, most believe the problem is located in the orbitalfrontal cortex.

Another more reliable theory is gambling addicts' judgement and decision making brain function is just underdeveloped.  (Ha!  I blew my wad because I have less brain!)

Some believe that addictive gambling functions on the brain EXACTLY the same way that cocaine does.  A 2001 Harvard study denomstrated this.  And also a 2003 Cambridge study.

A more psychogical analysis:  Some people who are already depressed or have compulsive tendencies or mood disorders, will be drawn into gambling.

Also, exposure to gambling as a child GREATLY effects the brain toward gambling.

Even if you DON'T have an addiction, the brain's "reward" system can certainly be hijacked by gambling. 

KEY POINT:  Fact:  more men gamble than women BUT....women become addicted faster.

Imagin....
There has NOT been found a medicine that is the magic bullet for gambing addiction. 

Most of the time anti depressants or mood stablizers are used.

Recently, narcotic antagonists have been used, like Nalrexone.  These are mostly used for alcohol or drug addictions, but since gambling is so similar to these type addictions, it has been discovered that there is some level of effectiveness with gambling addiction.

Thank you Doc and Thank you Lips, this has been very interesting to me it helps me to understand alot of what goes on.

I guessing with all this information, that it is because woman are more emotional then men.

I know the reason i lived my life in casino constantly was because i was depressed, i mean i was happy and i made the best of things, i just hated what my life had become and who i had my life with, he had addictions as well i absolutely hated them(strange to hate those addictions and you have one yourself or become addicted) felt stuck.. instead of making those changes i ran to the casinos, as soon as i left him, my whole life turned around i was able to quit.. i have nothing to blame but myself BUT... him and my life with him was a key factor.. and to top it off it took a long time before i even realized i was addicted, i was young

My daughter was my strong point, she was almost 8 before it all really started for me (i was young when i had her). This brain infliction or uncontrol never interfered with my duties to her. My god here in Vegas you wouldn't beleive what people do with their children, left on sidewalks, hot cars, left in casino childcare, left in the restaurants, sitting along the hallways, taken to the arcades, left at school. One woman had her child  hidden in a frontal backpack and sat there gambling. There was a story here once a mans 8 year old child was murdered in the casinos arcade, when told she was missing her father kept gambling, when it was found that she was murdered he asked for money to continue gambling, so the normal brain functions, reaction and descion making in this was completely obliterated by this persons chemical release from gambling.
If i got a call that had anything to do with my daughter i was out the door and on my way, BUT my thought to MYSELF were, damnit why they got to distrub me while im gambling and get angry. If it were any other calls, my house could be burning down, robbed, car stolen.. i wasn't leaving.
My daughter triggered that normal brain function in admidst the gambling.

I won alot of money, i was lucky most of the time, it was a matter of leaving the casino and bringing the money home that got bad, and then got worse... 20 after 20.. i even enjoyed that awful feeling when i'd come home after losing everything, that kept my mind off of things emotionally troubling me, i hope thats not strange.. savoring the afterburn.

When i stopped i had my daughter go with me to pick up my paychecks, i would not do auto-deposit in my bank account. I'd pick it up, cash it take care of business and go home. I worked in a casino at this time.. how convient it was and the stories to tell. Temptation, Temptation all around affecting the brain, to just pick up my paycheck, sit down in front of a machine after hard work, have a free drink and relax... lol

Drugs came later in my life, i knew right away,i noticed most drug addictions start early ages and last the lifetime.. though it was hard to kick, it is easier for me to stay away from. I beleive if i would have started at an early age, that i would be alot weaker in mind to the addiction because of all the other things going on in my life during those crucial years, that if i had to be addicted i thank god that it was gambling and not drugs that took those years from me.

It is not strange and so so normal!! Well normal as far as the gambling addiction behavior. Your still in escape mode away from coping with other things in your life.

It is a very good point you made here imagin. It is not uncommon to create other destructions in your life as a long as it keeps your mind away from the harsh reality of what you don't want to deal with.

This might sound horrible to say but i am sure there is people (even those that are not addicts) who actually feel a sense of relief off their own worries when tragedy strikes another. Not to say your glad your family, friends etc. is having a hard time of it....but it keeps your focus off yourself and allows you to not have to deal with it.

Ironically these people are probably the most compassionate caring people when someone else in trouble. They tend to put their heart and soul in helping someone in need. Having known what heartache and sorrow themselves.

And folks that is what you call.............the wounded healer.

Lips

Imagin....you have had more than your share of Hell on this earth!  But....you ARE making it.  Keep going.  And let people help you. 

Lipps, you describe the Wounded Healer well.  Sadly, we often call the co-dependent a "wounded healer" which they certainly are not.

When I was in treatment for my drug abuse I read Codependant No More by Melody Beattie, and so did my husband.

I found that it had excellent tools to use in day to day life, and I realized I am a very Codependant person.


Codependancy is a drug in itself for some. Well that is my opinion at least.


:-*

very interesting post.  thanks

Let me put this in the most simple terms.  Gambling makes your brain go BING!  And your brain gets hooked on that BING.  Most people can control the BING-urge.  Some cannot.  If you cannot, you'll get into serious trouble.

The Mind Doc has spoken!