Photo Enforcement is Nothing but a Bunch of $%#!

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    Lipstick

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        Lipstick

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        Hiya Guys and Dolls,

        I am so mad right now i could spit bullets! I just went to my mail box and received a letter from the Traffic Photo Enforcement . The letter states that i did not make a complete stop at the red light before a turned right. They had a picture of my car stopped and then another where i turned 3 seconds later. I have a $100 fine that has to be paid within three weeks or i can appeal it.  It is a completely false accusation and they have clearly made an error.

        Here is exactly what happened..........

        I was in the car with froggy. I approached the stop light. There was a sign stating that it was photo enforced and that i had to stop before i turned right on a red light. I said to froggy let me make sure i completely stop and make sure i am behind the white line so they don't nail me.

        The traffic was heavy from the other direction so i sat for probably a good 15 seconds. I then proceeded to pull out just a fraction to see around the cars next to me for any cross traffic and made my turn and say it was not a complete stop!

        Here is where the problem is......the camera captured me as i pulled out from behind the line to check the cross traffic and showed a three second delay from when i made the turn.

        If this happened to me this has had to happen to many drivers. Because i inched out after a complete stop and stopped again to ck traffic they nailed me.

        What is crazy is i even said to froggy in the car watch me get nailed for pulling out to ck traffic and stopping again beyond the white line and sure as hell it happened.

        My instinct tells me to pay the ticket and be done with it. I don't think i have a fighting chance to win this case and go up against City hall.

        Should i pay it because i will never win or try to fight City hall?

        Lips
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        kattboots

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        First question I have is they took a picture of you stopped (that's a full stop) then in 3 seconds they took a picture of you moving.... is there a law that says a full stop must be longer than 3 seconds?  Also, if that camera is taking a picture every 3 seconds, and you were stopped behind the line for 15 seconds, then they should have about 5 pictures of you stopped at that light... not so?

        Finally, DO go to court and fight the ticket. They are counting on you not doing that and just paying the money to be shut of the problem... very underhanded. If you do go to court, most of the time you can beat it. You had an eye witness in your car... get her to write up a statement to take with you. Write up your own statement too, while it is fresh in your mind. And if it is possible, go back to the intersection and take pictures of where you stopped, pulled forward and turned. At least draw a diagram. Fight the farging bastiches is my advice!

        katt
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        blueday

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          I'm inclined to agree with Katt here Lips.  Don't let these bar stewards get away with it. 

          If you do go back to the road/stop line with your camera, I would also take a picture of how much you can (or can't see in this case) see without pulling forward past the stop line.

          Good luck if you do appeal.

          blue
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          Lipstick

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          See that's what i'm not getting Katt.......it showed me stopped and then there was a three second delay when the cam snapped me turning.

          I can't understand the violation even with the second time i moved up. See the more ya think the more you start to doubt yourself. I swear the sign said.....no turn on red without making a complete stop.

          Could it have said no turn on red period? None of it makes sense so i am going to have to go back there and read the sign but i swear i can turn right on red.

          I am so confused that they are convincing me i must be wrong.

          I will go double check to make sure.

          The violation states "Red Light Vilolation"

          Lips
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          gunnylab

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          Kat is 100% correct.  Before reading what Kat typed I thought the same thing.  It worked many, many years ago for me on a parking ticket.  U taking pictures will get u out of the ticket.  Take the 3 pictures as Kat suggested.  Lable them 1, 2 and 3.  When u go in front of the ref u hand the 3 pictures to the baliff and say to the ref, "your honor, for your convience I labled them 1,2,3 for the correct order".  This proves u are being professional and serious about the ticket being in error.  You may think this is stupid but it isnt.  See, we are talking about giving away 1, $100 deposit to an online casino or worse yet 2, $50 deposits to online casinos.  Keep us updated.  Oh lastly, if u get a statement from our favorite Froggy make sure she has it notorized or if she is back overseas the equal to our notorizing.  Ms. Sorry No USA, I rest my case.
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          gunnylab

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          Oh by the way, notify me if u get a speeding ticket.  I am 3 for 4 in getting out of those.  The one I paid was the only one I wasnt speeding more than 5 miles over the speed limit on the interstate.  The state trooper lied about the radar gun speed by 16 miles an hour. I was on the way from the casino $300 ahead so I gave the State of Ohio 1/3 of my winnings.  I would have had to request the radar calibration report and pay $70 for a mechanic to test and give me a statement that my cruise control was accurate.  I got out of 1 with a warning by acting deaf and dumb.  I just kept pointing to things outside my driver side and front window.  The officer gave me back my license and insurance card with the warning and I said thank you.  Why he gave me a pissed off look is beyond me. 
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          kattboots

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          The sign is another very good thing to have a picture of in your exhibits. The only way you should not fight is if that sign does say NO RIGHT TURN ON RED. That is the only way you could be guilty on this.

          Don't let them get you down because they are the "government"... that is how they get away with all the crap in this nation today... people are afraid to fight and say, "No, you can not take away my freedom."

          Just examine and photograph the scene (on foot please, don't need another ticket!) and determine what the sign says. Then fight. They can't throw you in jail for fighting the ticket! Just be organized and prepared when you do go to court.

          Oh yeah, goole earth or other satellite map of the intersection could help with your diagram of the area... just a thought.

          katt
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          Lipstick

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          Awesome advice katt and i am going right now to check that sign and will take a pic of it to show everyone!

          Oh my i hope i read it right 

          Be back in a bit........

          Lips
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          kattboots

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          Can't wait to hear ... hurry back!

          katt
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          drpsyce38

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          Excuses, excuses.....might as well just pay it.  Good luck, Lips!
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          Lipstick

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          Ha! Here it is..........



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          kattboots

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          Way to Go Gurrrrlllll!!!! Hope you got the other pictures too! Now fight them! Their own pictures show you had to have stopped, they have a picture of that! You can most likely request the pictures just before the ones they sent you also... showing your car waiting at the light before pulling up.

          If you guys were that aware and talking about the light as you sat there, then you are not guilty of not paying attention and breezing through there.  So there is no reason in the world to be intimidated into paying them $100 or $1 for something you did not do. Good luck!!!

          katt
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          gabby

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          I agree with kat's advice.

          I would also think it is necessary to pull forward a bit to see oncoming traffic. 

          I hate those stoplight cameras.  It seems like a lazy and very costly way to try and bust people.  I drove to the gas station 3 min. from my house today and 2 people had no clue what a turn signal was. One pulled in front of me so I had to slam my breaks and then decided to drive 12 miles UNDER the speed limit.  Stop those idiots instead.

          Good luck and keep us posted.
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          gabby

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          The Mind Doc wrote:

          Excuses, excuses.....might as well just pay it.  Good luck, Lips!


          Why doesn't this post surprise me.
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          Johnny Karp

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          You have to fight it, even if the odds for winning are not great. But you have to love a good fight

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