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    Lipstick

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        Lipstick

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        Hi Members,

        Some members have expressed interest in having a debate. In discussing a topic, opinions are welcome. Please keep in mind that they are just that, opinions from members. This debate is to not be taken personally. Attacking or insulting another member will not be accepted and bear in mind to respect different points of view.  Remember its ok to agree to disagree!!

        The American Dream

        What is the American dream? It is said to be a land of opportunity. It’s a country wherein every man or woman can succeed regardless of race, religion or family history. America is the land of prosperity, recognition, power, liberty and justice for all.

        But our we losing that American dream? We live in a society of materialistic worth. We live beyond our means. We are in deep credit card debt. It is said that most Americans are two paychecks away from filing bankruptcy if they were to lose their job.

        Is the American Dream just an illusion?

        Lips
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        Wow, Now that's a debate question alright...

        I believe the american dream has become befuzzled.

        Now, my age is going to be showing here, but I can remember back when things started changing so drastically for us. 
        It seemed more than anyone else, the government and politicians had decided that the best way they could come up with for americans to be able to survive was to put the mothers to work.
        Now I am not talking about the woman who want to work, the ones with careers, the ones who choose to.( so no one get on me ...that's another debate!)
        I'm talking about the woman who would have loved to be able to afford to stay home and raise their children and make a home.
        All I ever wanted was to have children and we sacrified quite a bit in order for me to be able to stay home.

        I cannot tell you how many times I would hear things while dropping the kids off at school..or picking them up...
        " Well, I guess Mikey must have made it through the day...I didn't get a call from the school today.  Yeah, he threw up this morning but I couldn't miss work again!!"
        blah, blah...yeah, so all the rest of our kids get exposed...thank you very much!!

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        Then they started telling us about " quality " time.  You know, it's not important how much time you spend with your kids and family...it's the quality time..
        You know, the time you spend between getting them off to school, you getting to work, you getting home from work, making dinner, having them do homework, making sure everyone has something to wear tommorrow, making lunchs, taking baths..you know all that extra time in between...the quality time.

        What I think has really changed the world quite a bit, is the fact that woman cannot really make the choice anymore.  It takes two incomes and the government and politicians never credited motherhood enough.
        I think they would re-think all that if they could see where it was taking us.

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        I think the dream is different for everyone. Some think money is the dream,yes we all need it to survive but how many times have we seen people who have all the money in the world end up having the worst problems of all in the end.

        To me the American dream is what you make out of it. Unless i hit the lottery i will never be rich beyond compare but that doesn't stop me from trying to live "my" American dream, which is having family and friends around that you love and can count on till I'm on my death bed. To me that IS the American Dream.

        Tony

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        Lipstick

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        I agree the era of mom staying home while dad brought home the bacon is over. One of my favorite eras has to be the 50's when living that part of the American dream was alive and well.

        We have become so materialistic that we have lost sight of the institution of family. What i find interesting mariann, is the need to make reference about working woman "getting on you". It says it all. In todays society if a woman does not have a career and chooses to be a stay home mom she is considered to lack ambition.

        I have often said i wish i was in the era of the 50's when women proudly wore their apron and baked a hot apple pie. Took care of children and held the family together.

        How sad it is, those days are gone. Our roles as women have changed. I don't think we really had a choice. Keeping up with social and economical society we now live in makes it almost impossible for the middle class family.

        Lips
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        Imagin.ation

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        Also i beleive, since both parents are working, children growing up in a working family have changed and it has affected the society. Alot are without supervision, and are almost growing up on their own. Making choices and descions without adult mentors to advise them. So what's a child going to do but act like a child into adulthood. They join gangs for the togetherness and leadership. Parents are too tired to even interact. Theres so much more of the effects of both parents working as compared to stay at home parenting.
        So is the American Dream really worth it? We are losing our children in this sacrifce.
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        drpsyce38

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        Thanks to Bush and Obama, the American dream has been put on hold for at least a generation.  Their wild spending and borrowing has created such a huge debt load that this will be the first generation ON RECORD that does worse, financially, than the one before.  Sad days.  Happiness will have to be without financial success....hmmmm...not a bad thing, though! 
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        Imagin.ation

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        Basically we are working are butts off for nothing..? The only thing we can enjoy is eat and sleep, and barely that. Gas and food are so high as well.
        No one has a future?.. Some people are so troubled by our (americas) and their own debts they are having heartattacks and strokes, some are commiting suicide.
        Some are even going so far as getting into selling illegal merchandise (drugs and et el etc.), and we know why they do that, can't afford the taxes..
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        Feelin froggy

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        Great topic lips. When you said that we are deep in credit card debt, that caught my attention. I am in banking and I must tell you that the federal regulations are becoming more stringent on banks to protect the consumer. I agree to a certain extent and many lenders have not been on the up and up but when does the responsibility fall on us as consumers? If I buy something I can't afford that is my problem. I shouldn't need the government to babysit me because I can't control myself. After all, you did say "we" are in debt.
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        drpsyce38

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        grapeu.....well, the Government IS going to be baby sitting us.  They want to control the type cars we drive, how much money we make, how much electricity we use, how much health care we receive, etc.  The day of Big Brother has arrived. 
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        Imagin.ation

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        Doc, what do you think would be the consequences by over stepping the boundaries the "babysitters" have been controlling us with?
        What if we all stopped using electricity, stop buying gas, screw it im not paying my taxes this year, and so forth.. They are depending on us therefore we are depending on ourselves. We are footing our own bill.

        P.S. We cannot predict the future, as far as buying something now we figured we could afford, (years of doing well and good credit) then unforseeningly a month later lose your job, had no way of knowing that would happen, little by little the middle class person goes into a debt he can't ever catch back up with. Late fees, interest fees and whatever else kind of fees are added, you can't keep above water.
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        drpsyce38, the goverment IS going to be babysitting us? They already ARE.
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        Imagin.ation, I have to comment on buying something now you thought you could afford.
        You are correct that we can't predict the future. That is why anytime we buy something with money we do not actually have, the potential that anything can happen should automatically enter our minds.
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        CheekyMonkey77

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        I totally agree with you, Grapeu.
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        CheekyMonkey77

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        By the way, great topic, Lips. 

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