Who Provokes Who?

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    Last post ago almost 6 years by wnanhee
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        Lipstick

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        Hiya Guy and Dolls,

        Like Bonnie and Clyde, two lovers and partners in some of the biggest robberies in history.

        But my question is just like any relationship between lovers. Who corrupts who in a relationship? Was Bonnie predispositioned to be a robber? Or did Clyde reel her in to his outlaw ways.

        It always makes me wonder when i read about a couple who is on the wrong side of the tracks. How in the heck can they both be of a criminal mindset?

        Can love be so influential and powerful that it can change a person from good to bad?

        Lips
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        gabby

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        This reminds me of something that happened at my church.

        We have a circular church with the alter going the length of the middle.  The church was full.  Priest was going to introduce someone who 'had a new beginning', of sorts.

        Elderly man starts walking up the alter, clutches his chest, hesitates, clutches chest again, stumbles and falls.

        OMG!!!!!

        I flew up to the alter, in skirt and heels.  The man was down.  Priest grabs portable defibrillator and shocks the man.  Man chest flops up and down.  You can hear the gasps of the congregation.  I'm thinking... What the hell are you doing, Father?  Man is breathing.

        I rub the man shoulders in comfort, telling him he's going to be okay, trying to soothe him.  Tell priest NOT to shock him again.  DUH!.


        Elderly man leans over to me and whispers "This is a skit!".  WTH???!!!

        I spun on my heels, found my husband and mouthed "It's a joke!".

        Half the congregation walked out.  Church was fined over $2,800 for the unnecessary ambulance being called by MANY people.  Priest apologized for his lack of thinking at the next 6 masses.

        If ONE person thought it was a good idea to fake a heart attack (most likely in a room where many had lost spouses, parents, grandparents to them), it would be stupid but the priest, man and his wife all thought it was a good idea.

        Unfreakingbelievable.
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        chillymellow

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        Something in a woman, and maybe in some men of a certain persuasion, causes them to follow the lead of their mate.  Sometimes to great lengths.  So suppose a woman who had committed a few minor or petty crimes, or had contemplated such, hooks up with a more determined criminal partner.  That influence of following the lead could end up with both growing in their criminal lives together.  But should she hook up with a mate that had higher ideals and better judgement, she might be more inclined to leave her bad past behind. 

        Remember love can blind people to the truth sometimes, so the weaker partner may have clouded judgement from seeing their mate in a different light than the general public might observe.  It takes a strong person to say no to the heart and open their eyes wide and reject the object of their affection.  This is why it is best to have ones eyes completely wide open while dating.  And if you can accept all of your partner's behaviors and shortcomings, to then close your eyes to those things you know will continue to happen once you choose to marry.
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        genenco

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        "Today, most of the good people are afraid to be good. They strive to be broadminded and tolerant. It is fashionable to be tolerant but mostly tolerant of evil and this new code has reached the proportions of demanding intolerance of good."
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        I'll admit lips, when I hear about crimes and several times it's a couple. I often wonder who started it? Or did they both decide "Hey, let's make some meth and get rich!" I never understood that myself.

        Oh and Gabby. Thanks for the info. I had to this point, thought you were  a male.
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        jaybean

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        I think when it's teetering on the edge, of crime, or drugs, or GAMBLING... there is always an
        enablee, and an enabler.  One of you is always stronger than the other, and either keeps you
        on the straight and narrow...   or pushes you to your limits, or over your limits, then there you are...
        driving over the cliff...hehe 
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        Joseph Kennedy

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        "Who corrupts who in a relationship?"-Lips

        Good question.  I think it's the man.

        Amidst all of the woman that may fancy a man (rich, strong, successful, authoritative, etc.)
        He chooses that one he thinks will compliment him, an extension of himself imo, even in wrongdoing.
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        drpsyce38

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        Lipps....GREAT question (as always!).  I think it is too complex to answer in a forum.  The "cause" comes from so many different directions.

        There is plenty of evidence of both sexes doing the corrupting. 

        My BIG issue:  We (meaning, parents, religious leaders, schools, and society in general) do a BAD JOB at giving young people skills to spot a "bum" or in a lot of cases a "bummette."

        Yes, yes, yes....the power of love makes us overlook the horrible obvious very often.  But, the skills are non-the-less absent!

        Also, we still perpetuate the myth to young girls about "not being complete until their prince comes."  I can tell you in my years of counseling this is the NUMBER 1 item that gets females in touble.

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        gabby

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        genenco wrote:

        I'll admit lips, when I hear about crimes and several times it's a couple. I often wonder who started it? Or did they both decide "Hey, let's make some meth and get rich!" I never understood that myself.

        Oh and Gabby. Thanks for the info. I had to this point, thought you were  a male.



        That made me laugh.  I'm so girlie it surprised me you thought I was a guy. 
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        chillymellow

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        gabby wrote:

        genenco wrote:

        I'll admit lips, when I hear about crimes and several times it's a couple. I often wonder who started it? Or did they both decide "Hey, let's make some meth and get rich!" I never understood that myself.

        Oh and Gabby. Thanks for the info. I had to this point, thought you were  a male.



        That made me laugh.  I'm so girlie it surprised me you thought I was a guy. 


        Probably all due to "Gabby Hayes" from the movies!
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        Lipstick

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        Joseph Kennedy wrote:

        "Who corrupts who in a relationship?"-Lips

        Good question.  I think it's the man.

        Amidst all of the woman that may fancy a man (rich, strong, successful, authoritative, etc.)
        He chooses that one he thinks will compliment him, an extension of himself imo, even in wrongdoing.


        Not so sure i agree with you. Women can be very manipulative. As in the case of Ms Bonnie Parker. I think she made even Clyde wince on occasion or two. 

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        The Mind Doc wrote:


        Also, we still perpetuate the myth to young girls about "not being complete until their prince comes."  I can tell you in my years of counseling this is the NUMBER 1 item that gets females in touble.

        [/quote]

        I have always come from that dreamy state as a young child of my prince in shining armor coming to whisk me away. But at the same time i can be a feisty one and am not afraid to stand up for what i believe in. So i am not so sure that that holds true to the whole fairytale mentality.

        [quote author=jaybean link=topic=16027.msg154336#msg154336 date=1298606349]
        I think when it's teetering on the edge, of crime, or drugs, or GAMBLING... there is always an
        enablee, and an enabler.  One of you is always stronger than the other, and either keeps you
        on the straight and narrow...   or pushes you to your limits, or over your limits, then there you are...
        driving over the cliff...hehe  8)


        I think as far as gambling and things that relate to fun, yes we can be provoked. But as far as acts of violence i don't think you can change a leopards spots if its not in you to be that way.

        As far as driving off that cliff.......well that was all derived out of fun and necessity.......wink
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        wnanhee

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        Who Provokes Who?

        I don't know why but it reminded me of two of the most notorious evil minds in history.
        When I think about them, I still get chills.
        Paul Bernardo & Karla Homolka
        And yes, I really do believe women are more manipulative and wicked.
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        Joseph Kennedy

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        "Not so sure i agree with you. Women can be very manipulative. As in the case of Ms Bonnie Parker. I think she made even Clyde wince on occasion or two."-Lips

        Women, manipulative? Perish the thought!
        Actually, I agree with you on that.

        Historically, in American culture, women are depicted as "babies in the ds" and any wrongdoing from a woman, the man (whomever the authorities decided was the mastermind) was made the "posterchild" for the crime, hence the "Dead or Alive" poster.  By doing this, it strengthened the notion women weren't capable of heinous crimes.  That's why the "Bonnie and Clyde" story imo is notable even today.  Bonnie Parker was a break from the premise that women weren't ever capable of violence.
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        jaybean

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        hehe...i really missed you
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        jaybean

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        wnanhee wrote:

        Who Provokes Who?

        I don't know why but it reminded me of two of the most notorious evil minds in history.
        When I think about them, I still get chills.
        Paul Bernardo & Karla Homolka
        And yes, I really do believe women are more manipulative and wicked.



        so many notorious minds...and i never even heard of these ones...

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